Discussion: How Can We Handle Botting Better?

[Vnolan]

How can we improve the action taken against bots?

You're asking SE to use resources to reduce the number of subscribers for no benefit.

A quicker method of reporting would have more reports filed and would see the STF better informed.

General tips for filing a report, provided by the STF on the forums would reduce the number of reports that contain insufficient info. There is no reason for this to not be a thing already other than SE just not caring.

The ability to see retainer owners would make it easier for players to map out bot networks.

Currently, they take too long to issue action if they do and the punishment isn't even a perma. They need to either up the penalty or shorten the response time.

I'll give a start. I think a system where if you report someone for cheating, and punishment is acted onto them, you should get an alert that your actions led to someone breaking the rules to receive punishment.

That would have the opposite effect. More people would see how much you can get away with and how easy it is that they would join in.

[Jijifli]

That would have the opposite effect. More people would see how much you can get away with and how easy it is that they would join in.

Which would mean Square isn't taking action on people breaking the terms. Doesn't sound like a good thing for a company to do.

[Fhaerron]

Which would mean Square isn't taking action on people breaking the terms. Doesn't sound like a good thing for a company to do.

I actually had a discussion with some people about botting a while ago, and I think that the person replied to me might actually be right. (To give more context I was actually wondering why SE wouldn't perma ban accounts of people who buy gil from such botters).

So it's basically totally fine to break the ToS then.

Why make a ToS in the first place then?

Because if they actually had 14 million players like they brag about, they could actually enforce them. But when you tell the media 14m and only have maybe 500k you need to hold onto them as hard as you can to give the illusion your numbers are real.

[Risvertasashi]

Which would mean Square isn't taking action on people breaking the terms. Doesn't sound like a good thing for a company to do.

In many cases. This is precisely what is happening.

What you'd really want is anticheat software. But this is a thorny subject, both legally and ethically. On top of that, aside from bots, SE would need a clearer stance on addons that do things like optimize game graphics or crowdsource information... and the most controversial of all, parsers. ..Moreover, Asian companies have a notorious record of making really ineffective anticheat software, when they even bother to try.

But SE likes the "don't ask don't tell" status quo, which means they can't take action against people that disguise their botting well enough to plausibly be players. If you want things to change, this topic needs to be addressed first.

Finally, as has been mentioned in other posts, relying on players to report other players for botting leads to alarmingly high false positives.

[KisaiTenshi]

In many cases. This is precisely what is happening.

What you'd really want is anticheat software. But this is a thorny subject, both legally and ethically. On top of that, aside from bots, SE would need a clearer stance on addons that do things like optimize game graphics or crowdsource information... and the most controversial of all, parsers. ..Moreover, Asian companies have a notorious record of making really ineffective anticheat software, when they even bother to try.

But SE likes the "don't ask don't tell" status quo, which means they can't take action against people that disguise their botting well enough to plausibly be players. If you want things to change, this topic needs to be addressed first.

Finally, as has been mentioned in other posts, relying on players to report other players for botting leads to alarmingly high false positives.

Most anti-cheat software is easily defeated by the very same "well meaning" third party tools people. Botters don't care.

Putting the legality of any such tools aside, there are ways of crowd-sourcing the bot hunting , and it wouldn't require every player to have the program, just the same people who complain about the bots, and those who would benefit from the bots disappearances. Basically the same idea behind an antivirus program, have users with the program track the coordinates of all players, and then use the OOB areas to detect the worst disposable bots, and some smarter logic to find the "undetectable" bots by detecting behavior that gives away that it's a farm bot (and quite frankly it's embarrassing how easy it is to find bots just from just the Lodestone, no game client needed. But that doesn't tell you that they're active.)

What you want is passive reporting. Kick a player, GM gets a report with the entire chat log from the client and a screenshot. Vote for kick, log+screenshot. Report RMT log+screenshot. Allow reporting bot activity from any search panel, have it report the coordinates of the player, the reported bot, and any players within 20y of the target. Bots like to stand on top of each other, so that would reveal all the bots. Keep seeing players in the same locations, especially out of bounds, then you know who is botting, and who's controlling them.

But like any combating of fraud, you need to go after the source, and law enforcement just moves too slow to do anything when the bots only exist for a week.