Stuffed Fridge

[Lumivyory]

Thanks for spoilers
Please, put a note in a title that it's MSQ spoilers next time

[ObsidianFire]

Oh good, people who know TvTropes terms. This makes things ten time easier to talk about...

The Scions collectively seem to be a victim of the the Worf Effect. As in, they're the competent characters that demonstrates how powerful the enemy is by getting beaten by them.

That said, the Scions havn't really been beaten by that many people over the course of the entire game. And the people who do beat them are never portrayed as pushovers. The XIVth Legion, the Ascians, Ul'dahn politics, aether-sickness, slowing down a primal, Zenos, the voice... none of these are "normal problems" that normal people run into. Almost all of them could be considered a result of the Scions sticking with the WoL like glue (or vice-versa). While there are other physically/magicly strong characters, they have other responsibilities that mean they can't commit to fighting for/with the Scions/WoL so they aren't around as many dangerous enemies.

One of the things FFXIV has a hard time showing is how strong the other main supporting characters are compared to the WoL. We are the primal slayer who has defeated gods and worse. No one else has done that kind of thing. All of our allies admit we are stronger then they are. But how strong are they? They themselves are certainly stronger then the average NPC. However, the WoL just can't be beaten every time they come across someone new. That's why Zenos defeating us the first time is such a shock in-game and out-of-game. That's never happened before. Instead, the narrative has to do with other characters who are around a lot (who we know are weaker then us when it come to combat experience) getting beaten.

Just... doing it too much in close succession (Y'shtola gets taken out in 4.0, then gets taken out again in 4.4) makes it feel fake.

[Kallera]

Y'shtola hasn't been 'fridged'. You've misappropriated that term.

I was thinking that “Put on a Bus” would fit Y’shtola’s situation more, seeing as how she isn’t getting killed(and arguably enjoys the most plot armor out of the scions)

[Fenral]

On a lighter note, G'raha Tia underwent literal refrigeration to serve as a motivator for Cid (and the WoL to a lesser extent). It just took 5 years for Cid to acknowledge it.

[Bright-Flower]

It's really not just Y'sthola. All the scions had this happen in ARR and Y'sthola was the FIRST one back in HW with the others trickling back in for the HW patches. Well Alph was with us the whole way, but among those that got put on the bus she was the first one to come back and the only one to play a role in 3.0.

Yes Y'sthola took a break in 4.0 but the scions in general tend to rotate around. Uriangr mostly plays a background role outside of 3.4. Thancred comes in and out of the spotlight. Lyse got a spotlight in HW but isn't a scion anymore and post HW she'll likely just be the Ala Mhigo representative at council meetings rather than a bit player in the story, just like Aymreric got 'demoted to extra' after HW.

Y'sthola got to play a role in the patch here and while she is on a bus again, so are others. And I wouldn't be surprised if more are in 5.0.

I don't really feel like Y'sthola is being targeted for this more than anyone else really. SE has been juggling the scions for a long time and none of them save Alph have really had a consistent story presence because of it. It's part of the issue of having a single linear story like this, they can't have all the characters present all the time. So why not have one or two get injured here or there, or take them out of commission via this 'calling' in order to make a bit of room, because in addition to the Scions there will likely be other main characters in 5.0 for its story like ShadowHunter/Varis or whoever ends up in the spotlight. I wouldn't be surprised to have Cid take up a central msq role either next expansion.

Also to add to your interpretation of the twins. Currently, and since the beginning of 2.0 honestly, they are our point of reference NPC. Basically, if this wasn't an MMO, but we still had the same cast, they would be the "main" character; the one whose point of view the player is supposed to see from.

Yeah. I mean in 2.0 I might have maybe had Minfilia contending for 'main character' as the leader of the scions but ARR patches and HW on I'd say Alph is the 'main character' or the closest thing the story has to one outside of the player, and the player is barely a 'character' at all and more a plot device that fights things.

[Eloah]

Yeah. I mean in 2.0 I might have maybe had Minfilia contending for 'main character' as the leader of the scions but ARR patches and HW on I'd say Alph is the 'main character' or the closest thing the story has to one outside of the player, and the player is barely a 'character' at all and more a plot device that fights things.

I can see that, though I feel, in 2.0 at least, that Minfilia is more the "quest giver" "guiding light" or something; where they know "all" and aren't learning with you as a point of reference.

But from what I've heard, Minfilia could be the Point of Reference NPC in 1.0, with Louisoix being the "quest giver". Don't quote me though, never played 1.0

[Bright-Flower]

I can see that, though I feel, in 2.0 at least, that Minfilia is more the "quest giver" "guiding light" or something; where they know "all" and aren't learning with you as a point of reference.

But from what I've heard, Minfilia could be the Point of Reference NPC in 1.0, with Louisoix being the "quest giver". Don't quote me though, never played 1.0

Mostly I get that vibe because she was the leader of the scions who are the group we work directly with for most of ARR. And while I may be remembering wrong, while Alph was certainly important in ARR I don't recall him really taking center stage as much until the 2.X patches but again it's been a long time so I could be misremembering his role.

[Balipu]

The problem with Y'shtola and the Other Scions is that they are too powerful. Unless we face primals, they are much better at doing it than us. So we need them to go away to get tension. Plus we have lots of characters and not all of them are equally developed. And I don't mean tits. I mean character development. So far Alphinaud, Y'shtola and Thancred are the "main characters" with Alphie being the most developed. Alisaie is catching up to her brother slowly but surely. Papalymo is dead, Yugiri and Lyse don't really have much in terms of personality. And now we don't have any Scions for Gridania. I'm also pretty sure Gaius and Alisaie won't be the only ones going to Garlemaldd. We need room for new characters.

[Bright-Flower]

The problem with Y'shtola and the Other Scions is that they are too powerful. Unless we face primals, they are much better at doing it than us. So we need them to go away to get tension. Plus we have lots of characters and not all of them are equally developed. And I don't mean tits. I mean character development. So far Alphinaud, Y'shtola and Thancred are the "main characters" with Alphie being the most developed. Alisaie is catching up to her brother slowly but surely. Papalymo is dead, Yugiri and Lyse don't really have much in terms of personality. And now we don't have any Scions for Gridania. I'm also pretty sure Gaius and Alisaie won't be the only ones going to Garlemaldd. We need room for new characters.

Are they? I mean they kick butt sure when given the chance but they never seem to really 'outclass' us by a significant degree.

As far as having scions 'for' specific city states I don't think that really matters anymore now that the focus it beyond the initial three city states and now into other lands. In ARR it made sense, in HW and beyond we don't really 'need' a scion assigned to each region anymore story wise.

I'm also not sure I'd say Y'shola is a 'main' character on the same level as the twins, they especially Alph seem more important than Y'shtola to me. She seems more on the level of Thancred ad Popalymo before he died, maybe slightly above them but not eclipsing them. The only thing that really stood out over the others was she was the first one to come back in HW, but still Alph was high above her in importance.

[Iscah]

Moenbryda was arguably stuffed in a fridge for Urianger. Wilred was totally stuffed in a fridge for us.

D:

Direct hit right in the feels.

Just... doing it too much in close succession (Y'shtola gets taken out in 4.0, then gets taken out again in 4.4) makes it feel fake.

I didn't connect the two until you said so. Last time she was directly injured and sidelined because of it. This time.... something else is going on. A mystery targeting multiple people. Quite different to one person getting injured.


I think it could be just due to the nature of this long-running, episodic plot. Either they introduce new characters all the time, or they stick with the same ones (who might then be repeatedly targeted as the 'longterm character that players will be attached to / worried about'). I'd rather keep the same people as much as possible.