Raid behavior is getting worse lately

[sakkito]

@Fishbowl3 I have read all your subsequent posts below the original. To explain it best I will describe something that really happened to me. At one point at a time I decided to clear Byakko Ex. (I had a break and I was late to the 'party' lol). I joined one learning party to learn/clear. Obviously that did not happen. I have created second party in which after gruesome 1h30mins I have cleared. Then I have joined 2 more training/learning parties because I figured I am not ready to farm that stuff definitely because learning 100% takes some time. I cleared in both and my first farm party I have warned that I have cleared it just 3-4 times and if that is ok. Yes I was super careful. A bit too much but hey. I hate being a burden. Then I met friendlies with clears and same goals and we all REALLY wanted that damn doggos. LIKE WE ALL REALLY REALLY WANTED IT >.< So we went and created pf for farming Byakko, specifying that we want people to have experience in it and know strat. When we do pf farm parties we really dont expect to stay longer than 30 mins in one run. Like that is a NO. And guess what? Next few runs of those pf groups people join in, everything is fine... we que in and we have a bonus message. No word, no warning - nothing. And when we asked who is new (as I feel uneasy about kicking, you have got to give it a chance lol)..nobody answers. And then we repeatedly wipe for 3 hours. So instead of 30 mins max - 6 runs/6 totem drops/6weapons + chance for a doggo - we spent 3 hours trying to clear it for a stranger who clearly had no idea what was going on. It is not toxic when a farming group doesn't want to accomodate a learning person because that is not the purpose of a party. That is imposing your need to clear over other 7 people need to farm. You can always message pf leader if a new person would be welcome and then if that person agrees it would be fine but (!) definitely hijacking a party because of your selfishness is indeed making things toxic however nice people would not be it is staggering how people think it is not rude and unnecessary behaviour.

You don't go to the ... idk, bookstore that specialises in academic stuff and expect them to have mangas or demanding they order you mangas because it is a book after all. You can ask but you would usually go look for them elsewhere. That is why your comment about how people should accomodate others' selfishness because otherwise they would be considered toxic (which in fact is more like - if 7 people have time and will, they CAN but really dont have to help) and have issues with real life is really wrong.

Tho the comment about being toxic because you have issues rl is as inane as if girl blows up, she has to be on her period. :/ Some people just like to see things burn, ya know?

[Bellsong]

it comes down to, half the game is toxic people, half the game is non toxic. they are toxic only because something bad happened in thier real lives, or they would care less about things like one person learning in a farm group, sure its meant for farm, but woo a guy off for wanting to learn in a farm group, plain toxic

One person can break a farming group especially if they're tank or healer. Why should a party of 7 be expected to carry someone to victory when they joined a party but did not meet the requirements for the intended purpose of the party?

I have been trying to get my Byakko mount this week and I had a new player join a farm party, and try to play it off as they didn't remember the fight, No one said anything when the "new player" message popped up when we got in, I guess we were all hopeful that this was an alt of his or something just clearing the fight. But it wasn't. we wiped three times before I left. And looking back in the party finder I found the party went right back up, listed as a farming party still! I shook my head in annoyance and felt a great swell of pity as I saw my DPS spot quickly filled by some poor soul.

I was especially annoyed because this was fresh off the heels of another party where two ninjas, TWO NINJAS!... refused to use trick attack, Used almost none of their oGCD and one of them didn't use any ninjutsu outside of their buff. It was a nightmare.

It's not at all toxic to expect people to perform well in a farm party.

[Thoosa]

I have noticed this particularly in the alphascape raids (savage and normal) and I think this is because:

1. They have mechanics which require faster reaction times (to avoid high damage), more stacking damage and things to avoid, so you have to pay attention more and be more precise about where you stand.

2. They seem to have more mechanics for tanks (swapping and cooldowns more often) and healers get some additional mechanics sometimes, plus they have to heal more damage. Dps seem to have it the easiest but tend to wipe more now.

Generally wipes happen more often (even in normal which didn’t happen so much in the previous normal raids) then you add Party Finder and in o9s, even clear groups can’t often make it to the orb phase and if they do, they wipe.

So I guess that’s why frustration is high.

[Fiorinol]

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Frankly, I've been making or joining party finders with little expectations. I've spent multiple lockouts today doing "clear" o11s parties in PF. I had fun, but we did no progress at all. We could never get to second panto, which is a mechanic that comes in the second half of the fight.

Players would constantly join the clear party with little to no knowledge of the fight, no food, no melds, arguing about strategies announced in the PF, and sometimes even being outright toxic to other players while dragging down the party themselves.

Joining a party where you drag other players down by not having experience with the mechanics is disrespectful and rude.

This behavior even permeates learning parties, I've seen first panto prog parties where players who aren't comfortable at all with level checker join and ruin the party for everybody else, as they're neither fast learners nor know mechanics.

[Thoosa]

I’ve found in practice parties that people just leave after one or two runs, and then they are replaced and we have to relearn and retune with each other over and over, and it’s rare to be able to progress the fight (rarely are you lucky).

I guess that’s why people join clear parties in the hope that they have people around them who know what they’re doing to give them a chance to clear it, but these savage raids are quite unforgivable in that if one or two people die, it’s usually a wipe, or the not so sure of the mechanics player (who knows more than a total new person, but not so much like it’s the back of their hand) causes the wipe by killing everyone.

I think there should be an intermediate practice option for people who know the fight but aren’t fully confident of it, for the requirement of a clear group, but I don’t know how or if that could be implemented.

[Fiorinol]

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My experience with learning parties tends to be that you never get to the mechanic described in the party finder, because people with little experience with the rest of the fight join instead of making their own groups, making your group wipe far before.

Party Finder is in an odd place in NA, mostly due to the attitude players have towards savage content. You just can't join and have any expectations, lest you want to constantly kick other players.

Statics have their own sets of problems too that makes me want not to bother with them.

[sakkito]

@Thoosa I usually go by this: Learning party - up to a clear even xD Clear party is the one you learned but for whatever reason didn't clear and practice party would be for people who cleared but aren't confindent in the content.

[Kallera]

I think that this is bred more and more with mechanics that kill instantly, and gaurantee a loss for the party.

Even in a farm or a clear party, you are rolling the dice every day, and so people walk away at the first wipe despite all the assurance in the world that the PF is true.

It makes for a more stressful environment.

[LauraAdalena]

I know that if I read through the entire thread here, someone will have said what I am about to say, but I feel it needs to be said anyway.

I have encountered players like this, but complaining on the forums will get you nowhere. Instead of saying raid chat in general is hostile and awful toward LGBT+ members, instead open up the Support Desk, then open up the Contacts List and give their names to the report desk and talk to a GM. If they actually did say discriminatory statements against LGBT+ members then they should be reported. especially given the order of the events as you said it. You said it started with a small section people, then slowly got worse. My experience with raid chat is that it's best to ignore it when it gets to the "worse" part and just report the ones who started it. The others are, sadly, innocent and reporting every single one of them would be a pain.

I'm also going to highly suggest that if they don't respond to a couple of "please don't"s in chat, that you're much better off reporting since if they ignore that kind of request of politely asking that they stop such behavior that you are in every right to report.

I'm not usually a strong advocate for reporting. But if they do this, it could be classified as online harassment or even cyber bullying, which we should not stand for regardless of who it's against as a community. We are here to play a game, not make fun of how people spend their time playing the game, or what they identify as. If they want to do that, they can go to some other cesspool far away from here. And this is coming from someone who usually tries to stray as far away from RPers because I know for a fact that I am not a part of that subculture in the game so I let them do what they want.

[thrashette]

I find it awful that not a single person in that raid rose above the crowd to help you out. Next time, don't hesitate to report them. They deserve it.