what is it with these damn elitists in this game?

[miraidensetsu]

snip

On your opinion, anyone should know how to do every mechanic without a hassle and have BiS gear (that drops from savage or needs savage drops + tomes but that doesn't matter) and be able to pull up a 95 percentile performance to be acceptable to even join a learning pug?

[van_arn]

On your opinion, anyone should know how to do every mechanic without a hassle and have BiS gear (that drops from savage or needs savage drops + tomes but that doesn't matter) and be able to pull up a 95 percentile performance to be acceptable to even join a learning pug?

To join a learning party for the current primal -- and to be worth your slot -- you need to be in the Mendacity tomestone set at minimum, be able to make it through Rabinastre and Lighthouse without looking like a fool, and be able to clear Sigma/Alphascape (story) without looking like a fool. On the class you're joining that learning party with.

If you can't handle these things, or can only meet these requirements on another class, you flatly aren't worth 7 other peoples' time.

These are generous requirements, and fit the ilvl progression exactly as expressed in the game.

You deserve a kick for anything less, because you're a detriment to your team. If you insist on doing extremes without being able to handle the above, you are not, as the OP stated "a good person." You are terrible and selfish, both as a player and a person.

[Vidu]

On your opinion, anyone should know how to do every mechanic without a hassle and have BiS gear (that drops from savage or needs savage drops + tomes but that doesn't matter) and be able to pull up a 95 percentile performance to be acceptable to even join a learning pug?

Why do people constantly confuse "asking for purple parsers" with "asking to understand your rotation and basic mechanics"?
Seriously - asking someone to pull decent numbers isnt the same as asking for a purple parser and I can assure you that everyone is only doing the first. But if you go into current endgame content, specially stuff like an Ex-primal and you're at 2k DPS (as a DPS), then you're either getting carried or are a liabelity to 7 other people - in other words: You have no place joining a learning party for a fight if you actually need to learn your job first.

And even if it says learning party and everyone learns at a different pace: At a certain point someone who keeps messing up simple mechanics and repeats the same mistake over and over again and shows no sign of improving isnt so much learning the fight and rather holding 7 other people back.

There is obviously no need to be rude, mean or insulting about this - but there is also absolutly nothing wrong with dismissing such a person from a party, maybe even with the suggestion to improve before they try again.

So, no - you dont need to be 95 percentile to join a learning pug. All you need is:
- the will and the ability to actually learn and improve
- only using both of that to learn the fight, not your job
- since you have your job down already and are able to perform at a level thats acceptable at level 70. That does not mean purple logs - stop confusing the two.

Quite frankly I believe that a person who cant do those things should excuse themself from the party instead of wasting the time of 7 other people.
Call me rude, call me an elitist - but I believe that asking 7 people (possibly strangers) to put a hold on their own progression because you cant get your stuff together is quite rude already.

...and I just cant stress enough: No one in learning parties is asking for what you described - and I know you've been exaggerating, but the actual requests of learning parties seem quite reasonable to me: Show that you are capable of learning this fight. If you arent and keep repeating the same mistakes - whats your buisness there?

[Dirwen]

I always assumed FF14 catered to the casual crowd at least that is what I think SE is going for. Telling people to learn their job or gtfo is what I'm sensing from most people here. Which I think is a bad sign if they are representing the community.

I'm just one of those subpar casual gamers that dislike elitists. Then again I'm a poor person that hates on rich people too. Guess I just like hating on the higher class people.

[van_arn]

I always assumed FF14 catered to the casual crowd at least that is what I think SE is going for. Telling people to learn their job or gtfo is what I'm sensing from most people here. Which I think is a bad sign if they are representing the community.

I'm just one of those subpar casual gamers that dislike elitists. Then again I'm a poor person that hates on rich people too. Guess I just like hating on the higher class people.

SE has bent over backwards to make this game appealing to casual players, and that's great! But the instant you cross the threshold beyond normal-tier content, expect to "learn your job or gtfo." Your words.

[Vidu]

I always assumed FF14 catered to the casual crowd at least that is what I think SE is going for. Telling people to learn their job or gtfo is what I'm sensing from most people here. Which I think is a bad sign if they are representing the community. I'm just one of those subpar casual gamers that dislike elitists. Then again I'm a poor person that hates on rich people too. Guess I just like hating on the higher class people.

You need to understand that while most content does cater to the more casual gamer and can be completed, even if everyone involved plays at subpar levels, there is content that cant.
Content that is supposed to be a challenge - not everyone enjoy that and thats fine. Thats why we get two versions of this content: a normal version, that includes the story, and an extreme or savage version, that includes the challenge.
Now, a challenge is naturally something you need to be prepared for - for example by being able to play the job you picked at an appropriate level for your level (in this case 70).
If you dont, you have no buisness being in that content - ask yourself: If everyone would be playing at your skill-level, would you be able to clear the content?
If the answer is "no", then you need to improve before you try again - just how it is in any solo-game or probabyl sports irl.

I found the community in general to be pretty nice and helpful, but think about what you're asking here: You are asking 7 other people, who did their homework, learned their jobs, got their gear... to spend more of their freetime on that encounter, just so you can clear it to without having to bother with your own homework.
Or well, you're not asking for this, because you made the sensible choice for yourself not to take on that challenge - which is perfectly fine and okay! If you dont enjoy playing your class to its full potential and dont want to challenge yourself, that is totally okay - in all the content where it doesnt terribly matter in. In all the content that is designed for the more "casual" player - dungeons, NM versions of raids and trials, 24 man raids... but the minute you step into the little content we have in which your performance does matter - Ex-primals, Savage and Ultimate-raids - you better bring that performance or gtfo. Not because the community is made up of evil elitist, but because the people who want to take on those challenges would like to do so with the chance of clearing the content - and if you cant contribute to that, what are you doing there?

The community keep complaining how about how bad players are, yet players try to learn, they are ridiculed. People expect perfection from day 1. Players are human, they will make mistakes. Do you see pro athletes perform perfectly 100% of the time? No. Why is there an expectation in this game that people never make mistakes?

There is a place to learn certain things - as in: an Ex-primal is not the place to learn your rotation, for example. You can do that on a dummy.
And in general people arent kicked over one mistake, specially if they show remorse and express that they know what they did wrong and have every intend of fixing it.

Again: The waste majority isnt expecting perfection - they might very well expect certain things stated in a PF-description. If that says "practise colour-phase" for Suzaku that expectation is clearly that you know how to handle the mechanics leading up to that - if you make an honest mistake there (like confusing clockwise and anti-clockwise), but apologise for it, I doubt anyone will mind - specially if you show afterwards that you know how that mechanic works. But if you are completly clueless and keep messing up, you just dont belong in a party that wants to practise a later phase when you clearly dont have the first one down.

You are expecting 7 strangers to just drop their own goal to help you with yours?

Personally, I dont expect people not to make mistakes - I expect them to not always repeat the same mistake. If someone missplaces their meteor in Tsukuyomi once - no big deal, it happens, we go over that quick ("Please make sure you put the meteor in the right spot"). If that same person missplaces their meteor again, they get asked to pay more attention. And if they repeat that mistake, there needs to be talk about a replacement.
Its not asking for perfection - its asking for actual learning from your mistakes to not repeat them all the time.
And its not asking for anything unreasonable if you expect people to know how to play their class at level 70 - and not to practise that in an Ex-primal run.

An athelete might not be perfect 100% of the time, but if he continues to fail, do you think his sponsor or trainer or team will keep him on?
To use your analogy: I havent played football in... probably 15 years and when I played, I played very, very poorly with no will to improve (dont worry, I eventually stopped alltogether and let the other kids on the playground have the ball). If I were to go to my national football-team and demand to play the next season - do you think they should take me on?
No, of course not - they're looking for people playing at their level. And those people can make the occassional mistake, of course! But if someone would constantly pass the ball to the other team - "uups, didnt notice, hehe, just a little mistake!" - or score more own goals than goals for their actual team - do you think they would and should keep that person on?

...why do people hold this believe that asking for a certain level of skill in content thats meant as a challenge is somehow horrible?

[MrKupo]

Ah so the Extreme toxicity is still around in this game... I will say it is for the betterment of the community to teach someone that you believe is worse than you, rather than kick them or berate them. In the long run, they will teach others and more people will get better at the run and you will more likely run into players that know what to do in Duty Finder.

Offer feedback, be a helpful part of the hospitable community that this game has become known for. We are all on the same side.

[van_arn]

Ah so the Extreme toxicity is still around in this game... I will say it is for the betterment of the community to teach someone that you believe is worse than you, rather than kick them or berate them. In the long run, they will teach others and more people will get better at the run and you will more likely run into players that know what to do in Duty Finder.

Offer feedback, be a helpful part of the hospitable community that this game has become known for. We are all on the same side.

There is absolutely a place for teaching players how to improve. That is not in the middle of extreme-tier content, especially when they can't handle the lower tiers at an acceptable level for that.

If the specific issue is with rotations and damage, then the best way to teach them they aren't ready for that tier is to kick them.

Additionally, a "learning party" is not a "let's just wipe a lot and not learn anything" party. You're in there to learn, and that means bringing your nerdiest shirt, a notebook, and taking notes.

Be serious about learning or hit the pavement.

[LalafellDown]

It’s important to see the perspective from their point of view OP. They probably took the time and effort to learn the fight so that they won’t burden anyone. They’re probably tired of having the fight down only to be held back by others.

Coming here to complain about a story we don’t know is even true isn’t the right thing to do. Also, there is a thread for that.

Your post only shows that you can’t handle criticism and are giving into their criticism. Be glad they basically told you that you suck in the nicest way possible instead of cussing you out.

Perhaps the person is struggles with anger and is attempting to convey their emotions in a less harmful way.

Learn to take their criticism and put it to good use to better yourself. Coming here to cry only feeds them and makes you look weak to the world.

I tell this to someone else who almost gave up playing the game they love just because they were told they suck.

Don’t give up just because someone tells you you suck. If anything next time, fight evil with love. That way you’ll make them more angry, win them over or make them look like a jackass to the whole group.