About the Emperor [Major Spoilers for 4.4]

[Anonymoose]

This is where the fun begins!

You're 100% sure that Solus zos Galvus the man and "Solus zos Galvus" the Ascian are separate entities? Solus zos Galvus was born a man, died a man, and was replaced by an Ascian of unknown identity who is continuing to go by his old, dead puppet's name, and is continuing to self-present with his old, dead puppet's body, for reasons unknown? Are we able to conclusively rule out all other possibilities at this time?

Everyone seems to understand exactly that the implication is but none of the lessons given when educating others about it seem to line up.

It's just proliferating and exacerbating that initial confusion, imo.

I'm going to take a moment to go back and re-read and see just how many walls we can feel out.

[Risvertasashi]

There is one question that bugs me.

Previously... as far as I've been able to tell, Ascians take on the appearance of the body they take over. Even as recently as Zenos-the-Ascian showing up this holds true.

Solus gets shot... and respawns just like that. Exactly as he was before. Without seemingly having a need to take over a body; or if he did, altering the appearance to look exactly as before.

Is this also a broken/new rule, or did I miss something somewhere along the line?

[Keever]

[...]

When Nabriales is ejected from his host body following the fight in the Chrysalis, his fleshless form appears above it, looking identical to the host body, sideburns and all. What happens with Solus is in line with that.

My hypothesis for now, if only because it seems to explain all these instances most neatly, is that we usually perceive Ascians' fleshless forms as looking identical to the last host they possessed. We know that Ascians' appearances are affected by expectations in some way thanks to Elidibus' spiel in patch 2.1 explaining why Tataru was unable to see him: "Knowledge dictates expectation, and expectation colors perception." (English localisation lead John Crow [A.K.A. Corvinoobus] explains in an interview here that this line was also written in this way to hand-wave away the differences between current Ascian depictions and the shadowless Ascians in 1.0.)

[SynthielLyrin]

... what could actually be a broken rule now is that wasn't it said by an Ascian that only the ones from -our- Shard can be comfortably walking around here? So, what gives with Solus if he was in retirement? Was he also from our shard, and therefore we had 3/14? Or does he get a new pass?

[ObsidianFire]

He has to be from our Shard. If "Solus" was possessed by an Ascian, it would have happened back when Ascians could only get to the Shard they were originally from. If Solus is not possessed, but became an Ascian, he's from our Shard anyway like everyone born on our Shard is. Both theories on him give the same answer in this case.

[Anonymoose]

I'm still working up the analysis of the speech but since you're all working in the same vein here for the moment:

Don't forget what Nabriales said: Specifically of the fourteen overlords that exist in 2.50, only Lahabrea is from the Source.

[Iscah]

I'm still working up the analysis of the speech but since you're all working in the same vein here for the moment:

Don't forget what Nabriales said: Specifically of the fourteen overlords that exist in 2.50, only Lahabrea is from the Source.

Could that make it possible that IF Solus the man directly became an Ascian, he's outside that count of fourteen? Can there be more than fourteen / one-per-shard at a time? Perhaps he's been promoted to "overlord of the Source" because Lahabrea got killed and they needed a replacement for the position.

Also is Elidibus an "overlord" or is emissary a separate position?

[Anonymoose]

Well, that was <sigh> taxing.

Alright, let's do this...

Elidibus

To capitalize on the Populares' lost momentum (in light of the Doman summoning), Elidibus (strongly) suggests that Emperor Varis zos Galvus order "his son" to destroy Ala Mhigo as a display of the Empire's unshaken might. Varis's silence prompts Elidibus reminds him that he has vowed to support the Empire, and that he would debase himself by spending his days pretending to be Zenos should be proof enough of his intent to honor that promise...so give the order. Silence. Elidibus sweetens the pot, suggesting that this will lead to the fall of the Warrior of Light. Silence. Frustrated, he switches tactics; threatening that delaying the order may jeopardize victory before taking his leave.

Solus

A man swaggers out from behind the throne. His third eye marks him a pure-blood Garlean.

I played my part to perfection. I had earned my rest. And then, thanks to Lahabrea's crowning act of idiocy, our favorite emissary sees fit to summon me back.

This man successfully completed his tasks. Building the Empire, setting the stage for global chaos and war, getting sick and dying under circumstances that inspire maximum tension. Every single thing that happened was meant to happen until the death of the Emperor (2.00).

This man then passed things off to Lahabrea, who would make a series of arrogant missteps resulting in the "crowning" act of idiocy that led to his (alleged) extinction. As a result, this man was recalled to active duty. We can surmise, then, that his man answered to Lahabrea. Note that this rules out few possibilities. Every black-mask we've met on the Source answered to Lahabrea, but so did Nabriales and Igeyorhm.

Elidibus was ever a worrier. A most tiresome trait, would you not agree?

This man's ideology is in line with the acolytes in black. Either he was recruited into the ranks of the Ascians like black-masked soldiers, or transmigratory and compelled to serve under Lahabrea temporarily.

What, have you no words for me either? No matter. I've long grown weary of this mummery. Now, my dearest grandson. Let me remind you of your place, in the simplest of terms.

Just as Varis has nothing to say to his "son", he has nothing to say to his "grandfather". This suits the man just fine. But is this a clue that the man in question did not sire Varis's father, and thus is not the real Solus zos Galvus? Or is this the same entity, but merely tired of the overall series of false narratives? No language gets more specific than, "It's a little late to pretend to be a happy family," which does not preclude that this is his grandfather in another form.

You do not make judgments─you administer them. Swiftly and to the letter. Naught else is your concern.
Elidibus may be an insufferable bore, but he is no fool. His choices as emissary seldom err.

More confirmation the man is an acolyte. He and Elidibus do not like one another, but the acolytes trust the Elidibus is promoting their interests, and thus far he has done so flawlessly. Ergo, Solus believes that Varis should blindly follow every order that he's been given. One can surmise then that everything this man did is exactly what Elidibus told him to do ... and if whatever they're working together on is only one shared goal, and the Acolytes and Emissary have different goals thereafter, "blindly follow orders" might not work out so well. Moreover, Solus seems to believe that Varis also shares whatever this first goal is. (More on that later.)

Note that Solus is also pointing out that Varis should just go with this because nothing practical has changed. Varis followed Solus's orders when Solus was Emperor. He was an Ascian then. He was listening to Elidibus then. Just keep following orders, what's the problem?

If aught threatens the balance 'twixt Light and Dark, it falls to you to remove it. Be it by your own hands or by your armies, you have ample means at your disposal.
That is why this empire exists─why I built it.

Odd words from an acolyte. Neither Nabriales nor Lahabrea spoke thus when rambling about their final goals.
Is it something that pertains to the immediate, shared goal Elidibus is working with them to achieve?

At any rate, this man built the Garlean Empire, and to not use its resources to manifest whatever desire the Emissary has is asinine.
Elidibus knows what to do, you have the resources to do it, get it done. In dealing with the Emissary one need only obey.

Oh dear. Have I touched a nerve? You always were an easy one to read. I pity you, I do. As they say, ignorance is bliss.
And I know how much happier you would be not knowing the things you know.

Varis is not as stoic as he wants to think he is. He may have been able to keep his cool in the Sea of Clouds, but since Elidibus started whispering in his ear after he took over the Empire? Since Elidibus took his own son's corpse as a meat suit? Not so much. This line varies a bit by language. In German it's closer to, "Oh, come now, isn't it uplifting to be one of the initiated insiders? We can infer from past sentiments from Varis on Solus (especially in EEI) that this information is rather new to him.

The founding father was an Ascian! And he created the Empire solely for the purpose of sowing the seeds of chaos!

Let's do some math. (Ugh.)

Garlemald the Empire was founded in 1522, when founding father Solus zos Galvus was 33. However the man who founded the Empire ended up being an Ascian, he was already so at this time and has been since. This is our upper threshold. Mathematically, Varis's father must have already been born by this time. (I think?). So the real question is, what is the lower threshold for when the first son of House Galvus (Solus) became (or was taken over by) an Ascian?

Zenos is the first (and only known) son of Varis, estimated age 25 (give or take one year). This pushes his birth to around 1552ish. At this time, Varis would have been around 21 and Solus would have been around 63. This means that at the time of Varis's birth, Solus was about 42. Given that we haven't seen a parent under the age of 18 in this game (that I recall), that's only about(18 x 2 = 36; 42 -36 =) 6 years of wiggle room for Solus to have had his firstborn son, father of Varis: 1507 (Varis's father 24 at DOB) to 1513 (Varis's father 18 at DOB).

Working up to Age 33:
Solus joins the army in 1505 (Age 16)
Varis's father (and Titus) probably born in this widow here.
Solus is awesome at this job; appointed Legatus in 1513, pushes the magitek revolution (Age 24)
Garlemald starts aggressive expansion in 1515 (Age 26) Note: Solus still answers to someone at this time.
Solus becomes dictator in 1517 (Age 28)

When did the Ascian thing happen? I'd want more information.
How did he Ascian thing happen? I'd want more information.

I'm not confident conclusions can be reached, are you? I can see 5 or 6 variables that can add up to a dozen different ways to spin this, potentially, yes?
Including that this dude is just a liar; for all I know, this whole story is b.s. and Elidibus just had Emet-Selch come over to mess with Varis.

Don't take it personally. I merely do my duty. To bring about a Calamity requires no small amount of power. And there is no surer way to obtain such power than by collecting powerful pawns. To that end, I have labored long and hard, and I must say I am quite pleased with my handiwork─paltry though it seems in comparison to Allag.

The forging of the Empire was solely to mobilize the resources to cause a Calamity, and this man pulled it off. Sure, not as great as Allag. But pretty great. (Is he by extension implying that Allag, too, was nothing more than a vehicle for chaos driven always by Ascian machination? A leap. Not an unbelievable leap. But a leap nonetheless.)

You fiends are overfond of your own voices. Mark me, Ascian. Man is the master of his own destiny!

"Fiends." / "Mark me, Ascian."

Varis is not on board with the acolytes, and contemptuous with acolyte and Emissary alike acting as if mankind is impotent to write his own story. Is Varis suggesting that he knows that this Ascian is not of this world? Or is he lumping his grandfather in with them for becoming one? Either way, it seems like this may be just the beginning of his insubordination. In 4.0, the revelations might have been overwhelming and they might think they've got him convinced, but this is a declaration of the future. Man will not accept the reins of their history in any other hand. How much more will Varis bend before he breaks, though? Eh...

Such a waste of time and energy. Both yours and mine. Lest you forget, you are Emperor now. If you wish to spout drivel about man's destiny, save it for the masses. It will serve to give them a sense of purpose...and you pliant pieces for the game. Oh, do stop sulking, boy. You of all people should understand.

In the middle of a speech about how the Empire is merely a utilitarian way to fulfill orders, Varis a bullet, a body, and time. The corpse on the floor, the pure-blood Garlean, has the same visage as the Ascian. Now we must argue the chicken and the egg. Does the Ascian look like the man he was possessing because it was the last body we saw him in? Or did the Ascian shape that body when transmigrating into it? These two questions have more than two possible causes.

At any rate, Solus isn't interested in man's destiny, but if Varis would just step outside and give the same speech he might at least do something productive by convincing a few more people to do their bidding; people are so pliable when they feel a part of something noble and bigger than themselves.

Ours is a struggle to restore both mankind and the world to their rightful state. Viewed thus, our goals are one and the same.

So Elidibus, Solus, and allegedly Varis all believe in restoring the world and mankind to its rightful state? Varis seemed as though he wasn't sure whether to support this in 4.0. Moreover, this is interesting coming from an acolyte. We know the Acolytes and Elidibus agree on the need to resurrect Zodiark. But it seems they agree on a bit more than that... Varis seems to be struggling to accept that re-merging Zodiark and Hydaelyn will "save the world".

[Balipu]

This is where the fun begins!

To be fair this whole patch was super fun. Timetraveling voices? Calamities? Everything about Solus? Yes, please.

The implication is that "Solus" the Ascian possessed Solus the man at some point or another, then played out the part of a mortal man while setting up Garlemald to be an engine of conflict.

The implication, yes. But we don't know the truth. Solus he founded the Empire to cause chaos, so he was an Ascian at least when the Empire was founded.

Do we know he wasn't taken over by an Ascian? No.


And, as "Solus" was playing the part of a mortal man, he would have to act as mortal men do - have children, grow old, and such.

Well he didn't say Solus was controlled by an Ascian. He said Solus was an Ascian. How literal that is, i can only guess. Since his body aged and not rotted we can guess that he wasn't a corpse suit like Zenos.



If "Solus'" mortal body was just a normal Garlean man, this wouldn't be true. If he were somehow able to have children without a mortal body, then... perhaps the royal line would be capable of some degree of aetherial manipulation, but who knows?

Powerful pawns are important to him. I'm sure if it were possible to pass on his powers, he would have done it

I believed this as well, but Gaius the Shadowhunter and Maxima both have brown hair. And not to nitpick... but since this "Solus" seems to be an aetherial construct in the vein of Nabriales, there's no reason he couldn't have whatever hair color he wants. It also looks purple-ish to me, not black, and there's only a white stripe, not half-and-half.


True, his hair is more like Jason Todd's. As for Shadowhunter and Maxima....well there might be degrees of blood purity. Or it is based on how much Allagan blood you have. Eula's hair was white.



"Solus" never died, he just "retired" from his then-current role - probably to go work on other projects until Elidibus called him back. Since it's to get things back on track after Lahabrea's "crowning act of idiocy," and Elidibus didn't seem particularly irritated with him for his failure during 2.0, it was probably after 3.0 and Lahabrea getting himself (and Igeyorhm) killed.

Well he did say rest. What that was is anyone's guess. Doesn't sound like a project.



Maybe. He's definitely going to be a villain in 5.0, but whether he's the main one remains unknown.

I don't think anybody could pose a bigger threat at the moment. Sure Elidibus is higher up on the Ascian foodchain, but we won't deal with him this soon. Take his suit maybe, but nothing more.

I'm still working up the analysis of the speech but since you're all working in the same vein here for the moment:

Don't forget what Nabriales said: Specifically of the fourteen overlords that exist in 2.50, only Lahabrea is from the Source.

Exist. Solus was resting at that point. Whatever that might mean.

Well, that was <sigh> taxing.

Alright, let's do this...

I love it when you do stuff like this.



This man's ideology is in line with the acolytes in black. Either he was recruited into the ranks of the Ascians like black-masked soldiers, or transmigratory and compelled to serve under Lahabrea temporarily.

He is definitely more than a soldier. Even if being Solus is a job Elidibus gave him, he wouldn't give a job this big to a regular shmuck. His choices as emissary seldom err.



Varis is not as stoic as he wants to think he is. He may have been able to keep his cool in the Sea of Clouds, but since Elidibus started whispering in his ear after he took over the Empire? Since Elidibus took his own son's corpse as a meat suit? Not so much. This line varies a bit by language. In German it's closer to, "Oh, come now, isn't it uplifting to be one of the initiated insiders? We can infer from past sentiments from Varis on Solus (especially in EEI) that this information is rather new to him.

Define, rather new. How long ago was 3.0? A few months? A year? More? Some youtube commenters theorize that he spat on Solus' coffin cause he knew about his true identity.

Let's do some math. (Ugh.)

Garlemald the Empire was founded in 1522, when founding father Solus zos Galvus was 33. However the man who founded the Empire ended up being an Ascian, he was already so at this time and has been since. This is our upper threshold. Mathematically, Varis's father must have already been born by this time. (I think?). So the real question is, what is the lower threshold for when the first son of House Galvus (Solus) became (or was taken over by) an Ascian?

Zenos is the first (and only known) son of Varis, estimated age 25 (give or take one year). This pushes his birth to around 1552ish. At this time, Varis would have been around 21 and Solus would have been around 63. This means that at the time of Varis's birth, Solus was about 42. Given that we haven't seen a parent under the age of 18 in this game (that I recall), that's only about(18 x 2 = 36; 42 -36 =) 6 years of wiggle room for Solus to have had his firstborn son, father of Varis: 1507 (Varis's father 24 at DOB) to 1513 (Varis's father 18 at DOB).

Working up to Age 33:
Solus joins the army in 1505 (Age 16)
Varis's father (and Titus) probably born in this widow here.
Solus is awesome at this job; appointed Legatus in 1513, pushes the magitek revolution (Age 24)
Garlemald starts aggressive expansion in 1515 (Age 26) Note: Solus still answers to someone at this time.
Solus becomes dictator in 1517 (Age 28)

When did the Ascian thing happen? I'd want more information.
How did he Ascian thing happen? I'd want more information.

I'm not confident conclusions can be reached, are you? I can see 5 or 6 variables that can add up to a dozen different ways to spin this, potentially, yes?
Including that this dude is just a liar; for all I know, this whole story is b.s. and Elidibus just had Emet-Selch come over to mess with Varis.

At this point the variation that requires the least ammount of assumptions is that Solus was a man. Lived his life, had sex, got posessed by an Ascian as a father, founded the empire and left for a vacation after the Solus body died.

This raises another question: Why did Solus occupy a body after he returned to duty? He can talk to Varis just fine in his incorporeal version. So why take a body at all?

[Cilia]

Just to clear something up - the Agrius did not slaughter Midgardsormr. It wasn't even a mutual kill.

Midgardsormr actually defeated the Agrius. He only died because of his own arrogance - he just had to gloat about his victory by roaring and such while still coiled around it when the ceruleum tanks exploded, taking him with them. He'd already bested the airship beforehand.