How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[HyoMinPark]

You're wasting time doing runs with randoms, waiting for them to fill your pugs on farm parties and more, and them kicking them when they underperform or wipe you. If the content is hard enough, you're much better off not doing that and not hoping the randoms will be fixed by whatever half-ass measure the devs put out, and instead do it with a static and save PF for less demanding things.

If they're going to underperform or repeatedly wipe the party, they shouldn't join farms in the first place. Because they clearly need to practice something, be it rotation or mechanics, and farm parties are not the place for practice.

[Zephera]

You're wasting time doing runs with randoms, waiting for them to fill your pugs on farm parties and more, and them kicking them when they underperform or wipe you. If the content is hard enough, you're much better off not doing that and not hoping the randoms will be fixed by whatever half-ass measure the devs put out, and instead do it with a static and save PF for less demanding things.

I don't have the time or schedule for a static so PF will have to do. Also, just curious but what do you use PF for? Casual dungeon runs?

What excluding people based on a few results in a third party website that doesn't even need you to sign up to it, your all just proving to me the worst of what I think of this games raiding player base.

How dare people have expectations of others and remove them from groups when they don't meet them. I think you're the toxic one if you're wandering into parties and only giving a mediocre performance instead of your best.

[Aerlana]

what on earth would you guys ever do if the endgame were based around 24 man raids? If you can't get 7 other people as friends in an mmo to do raid content, there's something wrong. It's not like you need to spend 4 hour farming a pop and two hours fighting the pop boss or anything.

To answer specificaly to the sentence i did quote : Illness, hollidays, different IRL. When you get 3 night a week to do sadic content, and you decide that primals will be out of those days. Not sure you can have all. Real life before anything else !
So yes, sometime, from a team of 8 people, you finally drop to 7, 6 or even less...
My static we were 9 to limit this matter. allowing to run 51 weeks a year (just "loot run" for christmas ) without needing any pick up, while allowing our members to go in hollidays, to the wedding of the sister, or the birthday of the nephew (or his own birthday). And in 2 years, i saw 8 weeks we had a matter to be sure to get 8 to the three weekly runs. We had to move some of the days ,but was not so easy. because everyone of us get his own personnal real life also.
I left my static because wanted to have all my 7 weekly evening free. they had to find anyone to take my spot. they didnt took the first showing up, they did time to choose anyone "good enough" to fit what they wanted to do.


now, for PvE content i only play wow. In this game full of toxicity, people manage to do full PUG group to 15, 20 or sometime more people to do content harder than Xtrem primals, i think it is also possible thing in FFXIV.

On one game, it is allow to say that some people are bad, that you dont want to carry them. it is ok to play with people you did personnally choose, with your own way to choose who can come. You can decide if you want only top players or ok with getting some "weak" one.
On the other game, doing this is being toxic. Thinking that some deadweight waste the time of the 7 others is toxic.


i read on this forum "you dont pay my sub" on topics about "how to play well" (like "heal have to DPS" and others). Yes it is right. YOU dont pay my sub also. You dont want me to do how to play? dont say me how to form my parties.

[thegreatonemal]

People who don't have logs or elect to hide them are typically kicked from weekly Savage parties. They can be kicked from EX Primals too, but that isn't as common. Basically, the exclude you're accusing an official parse of already happens. Not using FFlogs only makes people assume you have something to hide. Therefore, an official parse or allowing us to openly discuss parses in-game wouldn't change anything at all. Not when it comes to exclusion.



As stated above, PS4 players have no access to parses. Considering a sizable portion of the playerbase plays on PS4, they're entirely reliant on someone else to see their damage. Furthermore, we aren't allowed to discuss parses openly without fear of getting our accounts banned. Whether to remove players who have no business joining clear/farm parties or explain how someone might improve, we can't do anything except silently kick. The sheer amount of people who are shocked when I tell them how much more damage they could be doing is baffling. A good amount of people don't even realize they're doing anything wrong.

So instead of making countless threads about how the devs should be putting the rotations in the game we make them about wanting parsers so we can do the devs job for them.

No one is saying that exclusion doesn't happen what they are saying is that it will happen more quite a bit more. If parsers become official it basically acceptable to harass people and openly exclude them from things justified or no. the only reason people don't do it as often now is how strict SE is with harassment.

[odintius]

I'm not against parsers, but at some point you no longer need a parser if you have your rotation memorized that works or is good enough. Majority is getting the experience of the mechanics of the fight too keep dps up time to perform that rotation. A parser isn't going to perform that aspect of the fight once you have it down you're naturally going to see your dps increase if you have a proper rotation in the first place. Unless we're talking about act trigger/dbm which help call out boss mechanics that are coming because allot of these fight are scripted. /Shrugs

[RiyahArp]

I don't have the time or schedule for a static so PF will have to do. Also, just curious but what do you use PF for? Casual dungeon runs?

if i do hard content, its raid finder for learning and clear if possible, pf for learning and clear otherwise. I can't stand farming, by the time i clear i'm sick of the fight so mounts don't matter to me. Raid finder is better for learning because its limited to one lockout and there's no pressure to turn it into a clear/farm party after, i feel.

Between people having different school, work and irl schedules in general there are a lot of times that someone might be looking for a farm party but not have a full group available to them..

have you ever played any other MMO?

Because if you can't get 8 people on at the same time, there is no "let's pug this" option for any content of any difficulty. You cancel the raid. If your schedules are so different you can't make a raid night, you find a guild or fc who schedules it when you can. This isn't a game where you need to spend 6 hours just to have a chance at a fight; if you all can't be bothered to schedule one night a week at minimum and stick to it, wtf will any of you do if SE decides to make endgame more involved than a boss in a box? There's only so much hard raids can compensate for limited time and reliance on randoms, if you can't use the social tools players used to counter this, there's no way SE will fix this just by adding a parser or gating out the bads. It will wind up being like them getting rid of Feast chat, a ham-handed solution that no one likes.

[KaivaC]

Why are you doing farm parties in pf with randoms though? If you can't get 8 people together to do it, you need to spend less time griping about carries and more time making friends. The raiders in this game are odd that way; no one expects to speedkill stuff over and over in the hardest content in the game with randoms. Yet in this game they complain when it happens. In most other games, if you want to do this you do it with a guild specifically designed for endgame raiding.

Riyah, if you couldn't even clear v3s to even see said farm parties, why are you here trying to preach what etiquette should be?

[SenorPatty]

So instead of making countless threads about how the devs should be putting the rotations in the game we make them about wanting parsers so we can do the devs job for them.

No one is saying that exclusion doesn't happen what they are saying is that it will happen more quite a bit more. If parsers become official it basically acceptable to harass people and openly exclude them from things justified or no. the only reason people don't do it as often now is how strict SE is with harassment.

The issue is people muddle harassment for everything. You have people in this thread, other parser topic threads and even tales of df that have claimed being kicked silently is harassment. It really wouldn't surprise me if those same people even went as far as reporting the party leader or other people in the party because they felt like it was harassment.

SE's strict on harassment in everything. Even if an official parser were to drop tommorow, that would not change. But you know what else wouldn't change? Their stance on playstyle differences. If people fearing parsers because now people can openly speak in a civil or neutral manner with facts about why they're getting booted, then that's on them because they're the ones mixing up legit harassment and playstyle differences.

This is the common thread I see with anti-parsers: they want to play however they like, they don't want to be excluded from content they clearly cannot do, they don't want to be told where they're messing up and they don't want to give people the choice to disband.

All this because facts would actually validate other people's reasons for kicking whereas the absence of those facts gives them leeway to act like they're not the problem.

[Zephera]

have you ever played any other MMO?

Not who you're responding to with this, but difficult content in MMO's can't survive on statics alone these days. Blizzard was going to quit making raids in WoW entirely were it not for the introduction of the LFR system because not enough people were doing them. Statics aren't easy to create or hold together and if you make content that requires a static, you're going to find the amount of people doing the difficult content will be so low it's not worth making content like that anymore.

[Sigma-Astra]

sheesh, this game has the least time-demanding endgame of any mmo out there. Schedule your farms for one night a week for two or three hours; if people can't make it to that, they probably should consider if raiding is what they want to do. Because in other games there would be none of this, you get kicked if you don't show up on time enough. And you make sure you schedule things so people can plan for it. If you consistently need to pug stuff, that's a people failure; you need to talk to the people who aren't showing up and see what's up.

I have a static strictly for raiding and anything else I do, whether farming or other random nonsense on my own time is strictly my personal responsibility.

Before you attempt to lecture me and circlejerk yourself with weaker arguments, perhaps you should stop complaining first that the game is already too hard if you're going to try to say things like "this game already has the least time-demanding endgame possible". I raid on Tuesday and Wednesday nights because, and here's a shocker for you, I work 7 days a week, and here's another shocker, people have other lives outside of XIV. Yet, I still find time within my busy schedule to raid and have fun. You really need to stop passing your subjective opinions off as facts all of the time here.

Omg, what are you? A no lifer? Funny how raiders get called that first when casuals do it too....