How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Sigma-Astra]

Parsers are tools that could fuel toxic behavior....but literally anything can fuel toxic behavior. A person having better gear than others can fuel toxic behavior, a person having a minion that someone else doesn't have can lead to toxic behavior, a person who buys stuff from the Mogstation can lead towards toxic behavior from others about it.

Toxic behavior exists outside of the MMO world as well and you simply can't just plug your ears and and shut it off either. People need to learn to stop fearing it and just brush it off sometimes at the end of the day as well. What a few jerks do to your time inside of the game should never spoil it completely.

[NanaWiloh]

I would be ok with a personal parser one with no option too post numbers publicly. With a strict rule from SE that anyone caught pressuring others into coughing up parser numbers will suffer a 72 ban.

[tymora]

Maybe a personal parser that only looks at your own damage output and compare it to the overall range for your job.
E.g. For XX raid, min is 3000, max is 6000, median is 5000. Assign a rating of A, B, C...etc based on output.

Only viewable by youself.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

This exact push away at something just because someone can be toxic with it is why Feat chat isn't a thing.

People said mean things in feast chat, so Square literally turned off your ability to type words and only let you say premade messages set to a macro.

Please, do not make that repeat. Everything can be used to be "toxic" to someone. I can emote in a way to harass a player in multiple ways. I can use the chat to tell you death threats. I can name my retainer something just to spite you.

Do you want emotes removed? Chat? Retainers? THAT'S how it sounds when people say, "Oh someone can be mean with this feature so we shouldn't let anybody use it." Why don't we ban the people that use it to harass people?

Oh wait. They'll lose a sub.

Good Job!
Good Job!
Good Job!
Good Job!
Good Job!

Didn't stop toxicity, it just changed what tools were available.
σ(^_^; )

[KaivaC]

I'm not sure I'd say either sides points got countered. Personal Parses seemed to get a decent enough reception at the start of the thread, it was people who wanted to see other people numbers who where most against them.

Personally I don't believe se will ever allow our endotse public parsers. The current status quo is okay for the time being, but PS4 users are screwed unless they know people on PC who can run a log for them. Some people may not agree, but I don't feel a personal parser for consoles would be nearly as bad as some said. If it's personal, there's no reason for others to see it. The tool for that mind of information already exists.

[valho]

SE should make SSS into something like this https://youtu.be/ZXYOVLT1VSs?t=66
This is from a F2P game that I use to play, it's a training room that teaches you the basic of your skills, dodging, etc. Beside that you also have bosses for all dungeons and raid, except the latest raid tier that you can use to practice with. Of course you won't die in there even if you get hit, but it's still a good way to learn to dodge aoe and stuff. At the end of the fight you get a summary of the damage you done, damage from each skill, number of cast etc. If SE can take this and improve upon it for SSS it will be more helpful than hitting a dummy and at the end only tells you that you pass. No other information whatsoever.

[Sneakaboo]

You design a game around DPS checks in raids yet deny your community a tool that shows how they perform.


I could wipe 30 times on a boss not realizing myself that I do 25% less damage than some one with the same job and similar gear.
My group has no idea either why we are not meeting the DPS check either aside from 'we need more damage'.
The game itself doesn't provide me a basic tool to see how much damage I do in a raiding environment.

If people do not know that they aren't performing well they won't improve either.

[Deceptus]

You design a game around DPS checks in raids yet deny your community a tool that shows how they perform.


I could wipe 30 times on a boss not realizing myself that I do 25% less damage than some one with the same job and similar gear.
My group has no idea either why we are not meeting the DPS check either aside from 'we need more damage'.
The game itself doesn't provide me a basic tool to see how much damage I do in a raiding environment.

If people do not know that they aren't performing well they won't improve either.

This is basically what it boils down to. And using a tool and informing someone they're performing sub par is "toxic".

[KaldeaSahaline]

So am I to take this as you are also advocating for an official handholding rotation helper too?

I used a rotation helper addon when I put top TOP 10 WORLD (not server, datacenter, WORLD) parses in WoW. Sure the community might have laughed at me, but in the end it allowed me to devote half the effort to managing a rotating and maximizing opportunities and uptime. It also made me you know a better player overall.

So yes. I have NO issue with rotation helpers, just like I have no issue with parsing addons.

I'm just going to give up on this thread. No one wants to face the fact that parsers are tools that can fuel multiple things, including toxicity, because they're being wilfully narrow minded and only thinking of how it can benefit themselves.

This is HILARIOUSLY ironic coming from you. I gotta share this with reddit. They'll get a kick out of this.

Yeah "we're" narrow minded. That's hilarious.

I'm not sure I'd say either sides points got countered. Personal Parses seemed to get a decent enough reception at the start of the thread, it was people who wanted to see other people numbers who where most against them.

Personal parsers will not solve the problem. It still doesn't hold people accountable and will cause people to ask for proof of parses for invites, which is a hassle.

The anti parser crowd incorrectly thinks that parsers will create more toxicity. They do not. They will UNDOUBTEDLY be used for toxic things; but so can chat, PF, housing, MB, and any other in game system. If parser opponents only want to cherry pick their arguments it makes them look like uninformed and hypocritical lemmings.

Maybe a personal parser that only looks at your own damage output and compare it to the overall range for your job.
E.g. For XX raid, min is 3000, max is 6000, median is 5000. Assign a rating of A, B, C...etc based on output.

Only viewable by youself.

The problem with this is scalability. That type of thing would be an absolute nightmare to develop and maintain as standards change between patches, expansions, etc. You want a solution that is simple and scalable.

[Aerlana]

For getting, said in game benchmark to reach, it is clearly not silly. The pinatas we get for each Xtrem primals and savage content are workd to fit a "minimal" DPS to reach. The value SE think it is needed (with your job) to kill the boss. I think (hope) they did consider that this pinatas is not moving, no mechanics etc. but it means they also have an idea of the damage value they could show for the "real" boss.
It would be better than nothing !

Here, some, me included, says "with parser you can see if you are bad or good" with, for example seeing fflogs or even other player you find during different run. But at first, before knowing "i am bad because i am at only 70th percentile" this will say "i am bad because i dont even have the damages that is needed for this content". Yes i spoke about testing it before, but i dislike what we have now because NO mechanics. some people get perfectly their job if they have only this to do... and then loose a great part of their DPS when they are in real fight. other people dont do it perfectly in this 3 min boring smash... but wont loose a lot while doing mechanics.



For personnal parse? We will see some wonderfull PF where you have to prove after 2-3 wipe your damages shown by your personnal, resulting being kicked if you are too low (same as if we have a "full" parser) or if you dont give the screenshot. Also people will continue to use their actual parsers. so, for me it is a little better for PS4 players but nothing more.
Because i speak here for PS4 players (i am not even one ^^") i could admit it is better than nothing yes