How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Daibunnie]

It turns out we're having two different conversations then. I'm talking about what a person can see in combat. You're talking about trying to find out a player's skill without getting into combat.



So what do you do if you look up a person and there are no logs recorded of their performance? There's always a first time to be logged. Never mind how people can change main class, play a different character, or even take breaks from the game and it may have been several tiers since they last played.

An official parser would be recording their dungeons/raids up to savage. The current parser that people use includes what class they played and the date they attempted/clear.

Again for various reasons there may not be logs available for you to view for everyone. What do you when this happens? Refuse to take them on because you can't be sure if they're going to force you to babysit?

And I'm sorry if you think being observant in combat is nonsense as I find it to be immensely useful.

Practice parties do exist. If someone without any logs tries to join a clear party, they can easily get kicked. And yes, having to observe everything each party member is doing during a savage raid is nonsense especially when several players have specific animations turned off.

[Penthea]

And yes, having to observe everything each party member is doing during a savage raid is nonsense especially when several players have specific animations turned off.

Please direct me to where I said people should observe everything and that it was even possible. I think you'll find I said no such thing.

I said some things can be spotted without a parser. Not everything. I also said some things are too subtle to spot without a parser or you may too busy to see it yourself. I even said several times that parsers are excellent tools for this.

I agree that being expected to watch everything is nonsense...hence why I didn't say it!

[Miste]

It is but some people have this funny idea that parsers will noticeably improve the overall skill of players...and well it won't..

Are you omniscient? Because that is the only way you could claim it will have zero impact on player performance.

How do you know it won't help at all?

[Penthea]

Are you omniscient? Because that is the only way you could claim it will have zero impact on player performance.

How do you know it won't help at all?

I didn't say it would have zero impact. Wow. This thread is such an echo chamber. Good god.

As I said before I played WoW before and after parsers were common in the game. The amount of bad players didn't noticeably decrease. But the speed in weeding them out and kicking them did.

[Miste]

I didn't say it would have zero impact. Wow. This thread is such an echo chamber. Good god.

I just got here?

I asked you a simple question about something you posted and you are acting like this? I'm confused now.

[Penthea]

I just got here?

I asked you a simple question about something you posted and you are acting like this? I'm confused now.

My apologies. I just had someone else accuse me of stating players should be able to watch everything in combat and spot all mistakes without a parser when I said no such thing and I even said parsers are great tools for this. I feel like they're deliberately misreading what I say.

And then you say I said parsers would have zero impact on skill when I did not. I edited that post and clarified what I meant. I'll repeat the edit here: "As I said before I played WoW before and after parsers were common in the game. The amount of bad players didn't noticeably decrease. But the speed in weeding them out and kicking them did."

[RuleofThree]

Instead of assuming, have you tried...asking? Also, mods are lenient, but not that lenient. I've had a couple posts deleted, presumbly because of language, so, you know, ease up some, ya?

Asking a person that is verbally abusing you, seems a good approach.

Disgruntled Party Member: "God your bad, don't ever queue up as tank again."
Me: "Is that so? I must apologize my good sir, for dark knight is not my main, and I am merely doing this for an achievement. By my understandings, I am doing everything as best as I am able, given the restraints of my equipment. Can I inquire as to what I did wrong?"
Disgruntled Party Member: "Being bad."
Me: "I understand, friend, but could you please give me a bit more information as to how to improve?"
Disgruntled Party Member: "By uninstalling."
Disgruntled Party member has left instance.

And...barring the frustration and sarcasm in my postings here? This was asking. It took this long to get what I was going after, which is a number from a presumably informed player, of which I could take, and validate as needed. Before that, it was 'omg look at fflogs lolz.' or 'who cares, it's not extreme/savage content.' or 'lolz iLevel doesn't matter anyway, just do your rotations.'

No, your given number isn't exact I don't expect it to be. But I know the four to five thousand dps tanks are pushing out now is not the place to start, and I had no way of knowing what too low was either. Your number lets me know where to aim..rather than leaving me floundering for an estimate of my own.

Quite honestly, before this? I was going to give up and assume 2.5-2.75k is the 'average' Not 3k, so at least that error was avoided.

[Miste]

And then you say I said parsers would have zero impact on skill when I did not. I edited that post and clarified what I meant.

Okay well let me rephrase my initial question.

You said basically this: 'parsers won't noticeably improve overall player skill' changed the order of words around to make it more clear but this is what you said.

It is but some people have this funny idea that parsers will noticeably improve the overall skill of players...and well it won't.

So I am asking you...how do you know it won't? Facts? Proof? Anything? If not, I am pretty sure it is just an opinion and can't be used to claim what you said in this quote here.

I am not saying that parsers will make a noticeable improvement though cause we don't know that either, but the thing is we won't know unless we try a trial run of it to see how it goes.

I'll repeat the edit here: "As I said before I played WoW before and after parsers were common in the game. The amount of bad players didn't noticeably decrease. But the speed in weeding them out and kicking them did."

This is irrelevant anecdotal data. FFXIV is not WoW. It cannot be used to claim that everything that happens in that game would happen here.

[KaivaC]

Asking a person that is verbally abusing you, seems a good approach.

Disgruntled Party Member: "God your bad, don't ever queue up as tank again."
Me: "Is that so? I must apologize my good sir, for dark knight is not my main, and I am merely doing this for an achievement. My my understandings, I am doing everything as best as I am able, given the restraints of my equipment. Can I inquire as to what I did wrong?"
Disgruntled Party Member: "Being bad."
Me: "I understand, friend, but could you please give me a bit more information as to how to improve?"
Disgruntled Party Member: "By uninstalling."
Disgruntled Party member has left instance.

And...barring the frustration and sarcasm in my postings here? This was asking. It took this long to get what I was going after, which is a number from a presumably informed player, of which I could take, and validate as needed. Before that, it was 'omg look at fflogs lolz.' or 'who cares, it's not extreme/savage content.' or 'lolz iLevel doesn't matter anyway, just do your rotations.'

So...you're just assuming that those players who got on your case did so because of your tank DPS? Something doesn't add up. Again, a lot of players generally don't care about tank DPS like that.

[Legion88]

The amount of bad players didn't noticeably decrease. But the speed in weeding them out and kicking them did.

And you think this would be bad for high endgame content?