How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Penthea]

Except you're missing the entire point. You can't just suddenly see what animations and effects are being displayed if you're not actually in that instance. You can't see what nonsense rotation someone is using unless you actually want to risk wasting 30 minutes of everyone else's time and letting them join or just look at a previous log of theirs and see all the info there.

It turns out we're having two different conversations then. I'm talking about what a person can see in combat. You're talking about trying to find out a player's skill without getting into combat.

Not even sure why you want to bring up "observational skills" when the entire point is to weed out the casual players that don't know what they're doing before they can sabotage anyone's clear/farm party and in some cases, even a practice party.

So what do you do if you look up a person and there are no logs recorded of their performance? There's always a first time to be logged. Never mind how people can change main class, play a different character, or even take breaks from the game and it may have been several tiers since they last played.

The other players should not have to babysit you on the basics of the game especially at savage content. You don't know how to tank properly? Then you should not be trying to attempt endgame with a tank class. Don't know how to use your entire kit as a healer? Don't be a healer at endgame. Don't know what a stack marker is? You should not even be trying to attempt savage content.

I think you're forgetting that some people don't realise that they are bad, or they don't care. Parsers won't magically make bad players stop trying to do top end content. They just make it easier to spot them.

All this nonsense about watching special effects and monitoring them is ridiculous at that point of the game. They should be kicked before any of that even occurs because it ruins the attempt of 7 other players who actually put in the time to learn what to do beforehand.

Again for various reasons there may not be logs available for you to view for everyone. What do you when this happens? Refuse to take them on because you can't be sure if they're going to force you to babysit?

And I'm sorry if you think being observant in combat is nonsense as I find it to be immensely useful.

[jameseoakes]

I think you're forgetting that some people don't realise that they are bad, or they don't care. Parsers won't magically make bad players stop trying to do top end content. They just make it easier to spot them.

I think that is the main point.

[Ameela]

I think that is the main point.

When you're toxic for not wanting to do double the work/take double the time because someone is too lazy to improve :blobsweat:

[Penthea]

I think that is the main point.

It is but some people have this funny idea that parsers will noticeably improve the overall skill of players...and well it won't. There is no cure for bad or lazy players. The best thing you can do is get rid of them when you see them play poorly.

[jameseoakes]

It is but some people have this funny idea that parsers will noticeably improve the overall skill of players...and well it won't. There is no cure for bad or lazy players. The best thing you can do is get rid of them when you see them play poorly.

The parses make it easier to spot them and then belittle/kick them which is the whole point. This has very little to do with learning tools, hence why I'm toxic for calling out FFlogs being a tool to exclude players, this all has very little to do with players improvement.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The problem with parsers is that too many people use a mere glance to judge the potentially more complex situation of their fellow players. They can make people lazy, and therefore often inaccurate, when it comes to judging others and/or themselves.

No one thinks this for the precise reasons you said. We simply want to push them off with like-minded people. If that Black Mage can't be bothered to learn their rotation properly, let them party with a Warrior who doesn't want to pop cooldowns. Meanwhile, all the players willing to learn and the more experienced players can party together and actually see more successful prog.

The parses make it easier to spot them and then belittle/kick them which is the whole point. This has very little to do with learning tools, hence why I'm toxic for calling out FFlogs being a tool to exclude players, this all has very little to do with players improvement.

Do explain how it is toxic to exclude players who are "bad or lazy." Those were Penthea's exact words. Therefore, you've essentially insinuated we should have to deal with whoever we get no matter what. Even if they're outright lazy and feel entitled to a clear. And no, you cannot lump in belittle into the equation. Harassment can and will still be reportable regardless of whether a parse is publicly available.

[Sigma-Astra]

The parses make it easier to spot them and then belittle/kick them which is the whole point. This has very little to do with learning tools, hence why I'm toxic for calling out FFlogs being a tool to exclude players, this all has very little to do with players improvement.

This is like calling a toaster toxic because it burned your toast even though someone else in your household turned the dial up...

You can't blame the tool, it's an inanimate object, only the user who uses it.

[Miste]

It is but some people have this funny idea that parsers will noticeably improve the overall skill of players...and well it won't..

Are you omniscient? Because that is the only way you could claim it will have zero impact on player performance.

How do you know it won't help at all?

[Penthea]

Are you omniscient? Because that is the only way you could claim it will have zero impact on player performance.

How do you know it won't help at all?

I didn't say it would have zero impact. Wow. This thread is such an echo chamber. Good god.

As I said before I played WoW before and after parsers were common in the game. The amount of bad players didn't noticeably decrease. But the speed in weeding them out and kicking them did.

[Miste]

I didn't say it would have zero impact. Wow. This thread is such an echo chamber. Good god.

I just got here?

I asked you a simple question about something you posted and you are acting like this? I'm confused now.