How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[KaivaC]

But - and this is the crux of the matter here - the number displayed by the dark knight who is doing O10S on savage? It is no help to a scrub teir dark knight just trying to do his best in mendacity gear. Comparing my i360 self to i380 gods is like bragging about bench pressing 120lbs to a professional bodybuilder.

But....you shouldn't be comparing to a raid you can't even access though...

[RuleofThree]

But....you shouldn't be comparing to a raid you can't even access though...

AHHHH!

You guys can't even agree upon an answer.

Yes you can! Compare logs and look at casts. Look at buff windows, compare downtime, it shows deaths and debuffs taken as well. Lots of details that don't care about your item level.

What content were you running when you were called a bad DRK just because of your gear?

Ok...so look at dark knight raiders and compare and contrast.

But....you shouldn't be comparing to a raid you can't even access though...

....or don't...? oh....oka.....what?

I don't want to compare myself to a raiding dark knight. I want a gd benchmark of another dark knight of similiar iLevel, to compare myself to. That's what should be offered if you want a gd parser to be used as a 'learning tool' for the community. Give them references to compare and contrast to that is relavent to their progression in the game. Not LOL CHECK FFLOGS. DERP

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't want to compare myself to a raiding dark knight. I want a gd benchmark of another dark knight of similiar iLevel, to compare myself to. That's what should be offered if you want a gd parser to be used as a 'learning tool' for the community. Give them references to compare and contrast to that is relavent to their progression in the game. Not LOL CHECK FFLOGS. DERP

iLevel literally means nothing in comparison between two people because a person with your iLevel could be worst than you possibly. Just because the other person has i380 gear doesn't mean that they're doing anything correctly or even know what they're doing either.

FFlogs gives you relevance for MOST of the major fights that you'll be progressing through the game except MSQ instances usually. And you're not even telling us what content you were running so we can't even estimate what you should have been at or doing around that time either. I'm not sure why you're fervently avoiding in mentioning that.

[RuleofThree]

iLevel literally means nothing in comparison between two people because a person with your iLevel could be worst than you possibly. Just because the other person has i380 gear doesn't mean that they're doing anything correctly or even know what they're doing either.

FFlogs gives you relevance for MOST of the major fights that you'll be progressing through the game except MSQ instances usually. And you're not even telling us what content you were running so we can't even estimate what you should have been at or doing around that time either. I'm not sure why you're fervently avoiding in mentioning that.

I'm going to assume you didn't read my post 5 or so posts above, cause you were busy typing this:

I play dark knight in some normals, some raids, and often in them...I only tank adds, and let the other two tanks play. Why? because I don't want 23 people telling me what I already know.

but I will break it down further...

Ala Mhigo
Kugane Castle
The Temple of the Fist
The Drowned City of Skalla
Hell's Lid
The Fractal Continuum (Hard)
The Swallow's Compass
The Burn
Saint Mocianne's Arboretum (Hard)
The Void Ark
The Weeping city of Mhachi
Dun Scaith
The Royal City of Rabanastre

Edit, because I see it coming:

I don't tank in The Ridorana Lighthouse, cause evidently I'm bad...and I don't want to ruin the lives of 23 people unless I feel confident enough to try it. Currently, I don't.
...I honestly didn't think I needed to rundown a list...

I already know your answer though...or at least the general gist of it.

*ahem* LOL that's not even end game content. Who cares. Are you losing hate on boss fights? Are you keeping hate on trash mob pulls? Are you following general rotation as best you can? If so...then who cares, lol. Only savage/extremes matter.

iLevel literally means nothing in comparison between two people because a person with your iLevel could be worst than you possibly. Just because the other person has i380 gear doesn't mean that they're doing anything correctly or even know what they're doing either.

Also? Bullshit. Yea, there will be 'bad apples' from logs of dark knights that aren't cutting it. But if there are enough samples of similiar geared dark knights - like there are millions of sample of extreme/savages - then I have a more rounded set of data to look at.

[RuleofThree]

Instead of assuming, have you tried...asking? Also, mods are lenient, but not that lenient. I've had a couple posts deleted, presumbly because of language, so, you know, ease up some, ya?

Asking a person that is verbally abusing you, seems a good approach.

Disgruntled Party Member: "God your bad, don't ever queue up as tank again."
Me: "Is that so? I must apologize my good sir, for dark knight is not my main, and I am merely doing this for an achievement. By my understandings, I am doing everything as best as I am able, given the restraints of my equipment. Can I inquire as to what I did wrong?"
Disgruntled Party Member: "Being bad."
Me: "I understand, friend, but could you please give me a bit more information as to how to improve?"
Disgruntled Party Member: "By uninstalling."
Disgruntled Party member has left instance.

And...barring the frustration and sarcasm in my postings here? This was asking. It took this long to get what I was going after, which is a number from a presumably informed player, of which I could take, and validate as needed. Before that, it was 'omg look at fflogs lolz.' or 'who cares, it's not extreme/savage content.' or 'lolz iLevel doesn't matter anyway, just do your rotations.'

No, your given number isn't exact I don't expect it to be. But I know the four to five thousand dps tanks are pushing out now is not the place to start, and I had no way of knowing what too low was either. Your number lets me know where to aim..rather than leaving me floundering for an estimate of my own.

Quite honestly, before this? I was going to give up and assume 2.5-2.75k is the 'average' Not 3k, so at least that error was avoided.

[KaivaC]

Asking a person that is verbally abusing you, seems a good approach.

Disgruntled Party Member: "God your bad, don't ever queue up as tank again."
Me: "Is that so? I must apologize my good sir, for dark knight is not my main, and I am merely doing this for an achievement. My my understandings, I am doing everything as best as I am able, given the restraints of my equipment. Can I inquire as to what I did wrong?"
Disgruntled Party Member: "Being bad."
Me: "I understand, friend, but could you please give me a bit more information as to how to improve?"
Disgruntled Party Member: "By uninstalling."
Disgruntled Party member has left instance.

And...barring the frustration and sarcasm in my postings here? This was asking. It took this long to get what I was going after, which is a number from a presumably informed player, of which I could take, and validate as needed. Before that, it was 'omg look at fflogs lolz.' or 'who cares, it's not extreme/savage content.' or 'lolz iLevel doesn't matter anyway, just do your rotations.'

So...you're just assuming that those players who got on your case did so because of your tank DPS? Something doesn't add up. Again, a lot of players generally don't care about tank DPS like that.

[RuleofThree]

So...you're just assuming that those players who got on your case did so because of your tank DPS? Something doesn't add up. Again, a lot of players generally don't care about tank DPS like that.

What doens't add up? Are you presuming I'm lying about my concern about losing hate? Cause if you are, why? Keeping hate is the first priority of a tank, always and forever, to fail at that, is to fail at everything. Tanking 101. Why would you presume I am ignoring that basic rule, for DPS? I don't lose hate, if I do, it's tragic...I beat myself up more than any remark ever will when it happens.

I can't convince you, which is what irritates me more than the past few hours of conversation. If you think I'm receiving the hate for other, more basic reasons...I can't stop you, try as I might. Honestly? I'm really hoping you are right, that it isn't dps...it's just because they have a hair up their ass, or I used cooldowns at the wrong time or something. But if it's anything I actually do right on a tank, it's holding hate.

[KaivaC]

I don't want to compare myself to a raiding dark knight. I want a gd benchmark of another dark knight of similiar iLevel, to compare myself to. That's what should be offered if you want a gd parser to be used as a 'learning tool' for the community. Give them references to compare and contrast to that is relavent to their progression in the game. Not LOL CHECK FFLOGS. DERP

Well, for one, based on your posts, the first thing you need to do first is get used to playing DRK at a high level raid area. You can't possibly compare unless you have enough experience on that job to even consider taking it into endgame like that. You get this practice from the normal raids. Then, once you have the experience and the necessary min ilvl to even enter Savage, that is when you want to start doing comparison. Can't jump straight into comparison on a savage raid that starts at ilvl 370, when you haven't even met the prerequisites to even enter it in the first place. FFLOGs does not track ilvl. I dunno why, but it just doesn't track ilvl. You say that you want a benchmark, but in this scenario, that's essentially the same as making a comparison because it sounds like you want to meet a standard that you should have started back in February when everybody was in the 340-370 range. You want a benchmark for current content, now is a good time to look at those DRK logs before people start getting their full BiS.

You want a benchmark for 360? Best thing I can tell you is to look through the stats for 4.2. I just looked and the average at present for DRKs for Phantom Train Savage is 3k DPS - those are the 20th percentile averages. So there's your benchmark. 3k for DRK DPS. 50th percentile for the same job sits at around 3.5k - 3.6k.

[KaivaC]

snip

Keep in mind that those were general averages. You can't really see what these players did - that requires a lot more in-depth research, especially when considering that there were raid buffs going out. That being said, if you don't want to compare to raid level tanks, why do you care? Parsing is...well, in casual content, nobody really cares as long as you do your primary job, hold hate, know when to tank stance, and mitigate properly. If you're being yelled at in casual content over tank damage, but you're doing those things I just named - then those players aren't worth listening to, IMHO. You'd be surprised at how many tanks can't hit even 2k in 360 gear. I have to advise that, truth be told, these numbers really don't matter in casual content like dungeons. Maaaayyybeee in current normal raids, if you're wanting to improve.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't want to compare myself to a raiding dark knight. I want a gd benchmark of another dark knight of similiar iLevel, to compare myself to. That's what should be offered if you want a gd parser to be used as a 'learning tool' for the community. Give them references to compare and contrast to that is relavent to their progression in the game. Not LOL CHECK FFLOGS. DERP

So compare yourself against Sigmascape parses? The highest ilvl was i370, thus you'd have a rough idea of whereabouts you ought to be. Otherwise, wait until your ilvl is closer. It's also fairly simple to make rough estimations. If you see Dark Knights pulling in the 4,500-5,000 range, your aim should be pulling as close to that as you can get. Of course, you aren't going to hitting their numbers yet, but you can ballpark and improve as your ilvl climbs. You can also look at their rotation and see how they're adapting to each fight. When I started optimizing, I pitted myself against an orange tier Dragoon who pulled far higher numbers than I. She, too, had better gear. My goal was simply getting closer to her numbers as I pushed up my ilvl. You're able to do the same.

Just because you can't get exact i360 comparison doesn't make FFlogs or parsers any less of a beneficial learning tool.