How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Mirch]

"wow 1 less unit dps compared to the top player of ur job, u better uninstall l2p gitgud, first we kick, then we blacklist"

truestory

[Aerlana]

cause it only benefits a small portion of the raiding population.

Anyone who wants decently farm the current primal will have a good use of it to improve himself, and so help to get faster clear, so need less time to do 99 kills (just to say, 30 second win => 49,5 minutes in the end ! nearly 1 hour)

But, the parser is usefull with this and not really usefull for lower content, it is right yes. But except healers that doesnt want to DPS (so slack 66% of their time) and this kind of matters, there wont be any matter due to "parsing" people dont need parsers to insult and be mean to other in small content. a pack a little big where the tank dies, sometime "ok, it may happens" sometime, lets insult tank to not have good use of his CD or the healer to not heal enough. With or without parser behind this. And for the "slacker" no need parser to see this...
And, with or without parser, if it comes to insult, just, no reason. temporary ban, or even perma if the guy did it too much time (after 4-5 temprary ban, lets say him good bye forever)

Also, parser is a really good way to give some fast help in "low content" (not xtrem primals / savage) to the "sprout" (or any guy learning the game).
Even in daily dongeon, i could see people trying to do well, but had a clearly lack of damages. when it is so clear, no need to read 1hour of the logs... just see the list of skills and how much, and will be ok. then you can give 1, 2 or more fast hint to be a begin to his own improvment. "oh, hey black mage, i see you dont use a lot "szcathe" spell when moving". Or any kind of advice, yes, it can be seen in guide but some people in those content dont read them. and i prefer getting a direct advice than "your DPS is not so good, should read this guide"

And you can also use old content / "low" content to improve yourself. No need to permanently train in savage content. you are blackmage? A matter of this job is heavy movement fight. you can try to train this in nearly any other content. An example.


Yes, those kind a resultats are only usefull in some content, but you can train in any, you can use parser to help other people.

for the benchmark to know if you need to improve, it is an idea, just have t odo one for each job on each content. (enjoy). It could be a good thing yes. and no one here (i think) is against it. But the parser is a first step before anything else.

[SenorPatty]

You are asking things that if even a game parser were existing, it surely does not give you. If you really are asking in game a parser with all that, your only answer is "NO". And you need deal with it.

SSS tells just you have the numbers to reach the kill and it is only a starting point to pass before starting the real fight. All the mechanics handling and everything else, you just have to do the real thing.

The only thing I'm in support of and not "asking" per se is a ps4 parser, much like some others so I don't need to "deal" with anything. In response to that, you have a group of people who are adamant that SSS is good enough and ps4 players only need that. Again, there's information that parsers could provide for ps4 players when they're extrapolating data from it if they want to improve themselves for a particular fight. SSS advocates (or at the very least of the anti-parser kind) still insist that ps4 players should just make do with SSS and that's all they need.

[Selova]

This might be news to you but most people don't google how to play video games they buy this problem is an mmo in general issue. when i play street fighter or ff7 i don't have to google how to do haduken or insert materia I press pause and go down to move list or have a tutorial on that very subject when it becomes relevant to the game that I can revisit anytime I please

This is comedy gold. The fact that you are seriously comparing entry level systems in single player console games to optimizing your rotation and performance so that you are savage raid ready is nothing short of insanity. Well, at least you've finally admitted that parsers are used in theory crafting so i guess that's a start.

[RuleofThree]

Anyone who wants decently farm the current primal will have a good use of it to improve himself, and so help to get faster clear, so need less time to do 99 kills (just to say, 30 second win => 49,5 minutes in the end ! nearly 1 hour)

But, the parser is usefull with this and not really usefull for lower content, it is right yes. But except healers that doesnt want to DPS (so slack 66% of their time) and this kind of matters, there wont be any matter due to "parsing" people dont need parsers to insult and be mean to other in small content. a pack a little big where the tank dies, sometime "ok, it may happens" sometime, lets insult tank to not have good use of his CD or the healer to not heal enough. With or without parser behind this. And for the "slacker" no need parser to see this...
And, with or without parser, if it comes to insult, just, no reason. temporary ban, or even perma if the guy did it too much time (after 4-5 temprary ban, lets say him good bye forever)

Ok, this thread has established numerous times that trolls will be trolls, parser or not. I am just saying, the trolls will now have access to numbers to fuel their asshatery. I am in no way saying "No parsers cause parser encite trolling." That's not true, I am saying "Parsing will give trolls more fuel." They will troll with or without a parser...this is an agreed upon fact.

Also, parser is a really good way to give some fast help in "low content" (not xtrem primals / savage) to the "sprout" (or any guy learning the game).
Even in daily dongeon, i could see people trying to do well, but had a clearly lack of damages. when it is so clear, no need to read 1hour of the logs... just see the list of skills and how much, and will be ok. then you can give 1, 2 or more fast hint to be a begin to his own improvment. "oh, hey black mage, i see you dont use a lot "szcathe" spell when moving". Or any kind of advice, yes, it can be seen in guide but some people in those content dont read them. and i prefer getting a direct advice than "your DPS is not so good, should read this guide"

Once again, people advocating the desire for an official parser are skirting what I am asking: Where are the benchmarks? I can't be more serious. You advocate use of parsers, you want the population to 'git gud,' and yet all you do is throw us a parser, give us no benchmarks to go off of based on gear or level we currently are, and expect us to just 'know how to interpret it all.' I have been bending over backwards, trying to figure out how to improve with my dark knight, despite only playing it for the second tank mount. So much so that I've read this 28 page monstrosity, twice, and despite everything, apparently I'm still bad according to the general populace. I am in full i360 gear, I am not going to pull the dps projected by people in raid gear. Yet, I have no benchmark with which to determine if I am doing the best I can for the gear I have, or if I really am bad.

Where is the benchmark so I can have something to compare my numbers to? Without this, the number I'm looking at after a dungeon is just that...a friggen number! Where is the context? I can't use the data on fflogs, because they are minimum i380...not i360. I can't ask another dark knight, because again, they are in better gear. The best they are going to tell me is 'Just follow rotation. Dark Arts everything when you can, especially for Carve and Spit. Splice in a Hate combo Rotation every now and then when taking a boss outside of tank stance, and always, always use Delerium for Blood weapon, not blood price. Other than that...it's pretty easy.'...

....that doesn't help me with the number I am looking at. Where is the number to compare that tells me if I'm ok, or if I'm far off the norm for my gear? Jesus, you guys promote this parser as a wonderful learning tool....but it's akin to giving a guy a German dictionary, and plopping him in Berlin and saying 'Well, you have the tools! Use them!'

[Ameela]

This is comedy gold. The fact that you are seriously comparing entry level systems in single player console games to optimizing your rotation and performance so that you are savage raid ready is nothing short of insanity. Well, at least you've finally admitted that parsers are used in theory crafting so i guess that's a start.

I find it especially funny when you consider the fact that in Street Fighter just knowing how to use the Hadouken or Shoryuken doesn't do you much good, you need to learn when to use them and how to work them into your combos and the specific situations you're in, and the game doesn't tell you how to do that.
It's exactly how it works in XIV too.

[Shurrikhan]

Jesus, you guys promote this parser as a wonderful learning tool....but it's akin to giving a guy a German dictionary, and plopping him in Berlin and saying 'Well, you have the tools! Use them!'

You know what, I can't wholly disagree with that. At all.

I feel like most times its nearer to a audio-testing pronunciation guide being given before class, but there are certainly less intuitively understandable situations for which we only have the numbers to help and where those numbers feel insufficient for understanding. Which is why I'd like to see more from an official parser, but in the meantime...

FFlogs. The answer is generally fflogs and tools for weighing your own stats before attempting comparisons between yourself and the players (not numbers) you're studying. And knowing your raid DPS buff intervals. (The "context" of DRK dps apart from fight-specific uptime tricks.)

[Dualgunner]

So parsers are toxic because they might cause an unquanitifiable harm somewhere, somehow, because someone who was gonna be an asshole anyway will be an asshole but this time with numbers.

Therefore SE should never provide a mod API or official parser support, or official battle analysis.

Should we also delete chat outside of Feast too to reduce harassment? Sure just like in feast people will work around it to still be assholes (Good game!) But if it protects even one person from harassment its worth depriving the playbase of a good tool.

[RuleofThree]

You know what, I can't wholly disagree with that. At all.

I feel like most times its nearer to a audio-testing pronunciation guide being given before class, but there are certainly less intuitively understandable situations for which we only have the numbers to help and where those numbers feel insufficient for understanding. Which is why I'd like to see more from an official parser, but in the meantime...

FFlogs. The answer is generally fflogs and tools for weighing your own stats before attempting comparisons between yourself and the players you're studying. And knowing your raid DPS buff intervals.

I am not suppose to swear on the forums, I think. I think it's one of the reasons I was temp banned from the forums a while back...got so frustrated, it got the best of me...but...

Where is the benchmark so I can have something to compare my numbers to? Without this, the number I'm looking at after a dungeon is just that...a friggen number! Where is the context? I can't use the data on fflogs, because they are minimum i380...not i360. I can't ask another dark knight, because again, they are in better gear. The best they are going to tell me is 'Just follow rotation. Dark Arts everything when you can, especially for Carve and Spit. Splice in a Hate combo Rotation every now and then when taking a boss outside of tank stance, and always, always use Delerium for Blood weapon, not blood price. Other than that...it's pretty easy.'...

j...f....c

I can't be any clearer.

I get that you are not disagreeing, or at least neutral with what I am saying. But you are skirting it as well..it's getting frustrating. I'd make that bold, underlined, and italicized text 64 point size if I could as well, because you clearly missed it.

I. can not. use. fflogs. It will give me an approximation but that is it at best I have no idea if I should be under that number of the i380 geared dark knight by a few hundred, or a few thousand. There is nothing fflogs - a source dedicated to parsing and analyzing current raid content - can give me, for an i360 dark knight that is so fucking tired of being called a bad on a job he is playing for fun.

[Dualgunner]

Yes you can! Compare logs and look at casts. Look at buff windows, compare downtime, it shows deaths and debuffs taken as well. Lots of details that don't care about your item level.

What content were you running when you were called a bad DRK just because of your gear?