How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Daibunnie]

So instead of linking them to the balance discord then kicking them and moving on people harass which will increase with an official parser. Add that on to the fact that parser aren't really needed for anything outside of theory testing and speed runs. so why waste dev time on that. It would be better if they added the rotations to the game and a way to practice it kinda like fighting games do.

Things like a balance discord can easily be searched on their own time instead of expecting their party to do it for them. Also, you should NOT be in any clear party if you need a rotation guide of any sort, which are readily available online. A parser can tell you how many times a player is using a particular skill, what they’re dying to, how much dps is being dealt. All useful to clear efficiently.

[thegreatonemal]

Things like a balance discord can easily be searched on their own time instead of expecting their party to do it for them. Also, you should NOT be in any clear party if you need a rotation guide of any sort, which are readily available online. A parser can tell you how many times a player is using a particular skill, what they’re dying to, how much dps is being dealt. All useful to clear efficiently.

This might be news to you but most people don't google how to play video games they buy this problem is an mmo in general issue. when i play street fighter or ff7 i don't have to google how to do haduken or insert materia I press pause and go down to move list or have a tutorial on that very subject when it becomes relevant to the game that I can revisit anytime I please

[Daibunnie]

This might be news to you but most people don't google how to play video games they buy this problem is an mmo in general issue. when i play street fighter or ff7 i don't have to google how to do haduken or insert materia I press pause and go down to move list and have a tutorial on that very subject when it becomes relevant to the game that I can revisit anytime I please

Those players should stay out of savage content then. There's a reason why almost every party on pf doing savage, even practice parties, asks you to either have watched a video or know what you're doing. If you can't be bothered to even search up a basic rotation, why shoudn't people kick and berate you when you end up being the sole reason the party is getting held back? When you play any fighting game online, I really doubt you're looking up a combo list while your opponent is beating you senseless.

[Sigma-Astra]

This might be news to you but most people don't google how to play video games they buy this problem is an mmo in general issue

No, because back before Googling was a thing to do, we had Bradley Strategy Game guides for almost every type of game which might be news to you. Whether you google information or read it in a book/tutorial, it gives you the same end results. The means on how to achieve the result shouldn't matter here.

There were strategy guides for FF7 as well.

Your argument that people didn't use guides on how to play video games is a poor one. It's not just an MMO issue.

You literally need a guide to play Final Fantasy X-2 or you're not getting that 100% completion ending.

[thegreatonemal]

No, because back before Googling was a thing to do, we had Bradley Strategy Game guides for almost every type of game which might be news to you. Whether you google information or read it in a book/tutorial, it gives you the same end results. The means on how to achieve the result shouldn't matter here.

There were strategy guides for FF7 as well.

Your argument that people didn't use guides on how to play video games is a poor one. It's not just an MMO issue.

You literally need a guide to play Final Fantasy X-2 or you're not getting that 100% completion ending.

And all of those games had in game tutorials on the major game mechanics you brought those guides so you could find all the hidden optional items not how to play the game. knowing your rotation is the single most important thing when it comes to doing the end game content in this game. that IS an mmo issue.

[Vidu]

And all of those games had in game tutorials on the major game mechanics you brought those guides so you could find all the hidden optional items not how to play the game. knowing your rotation is the single most important thing when it comes to doing the end game content in this game. that IS an mmo issue.

And its not like this game would be hiding your rotations from you - actual melee-combos light up for example and for jobs without them, like bard, blm or smn you get an explantion what the special "trick" to that job is. The game might not highlight the perfect opener for you, but I dare say that someone who looks at all their skills can actually figure a pretty decent one out without looking at a guide.

Is your Street Fighter game not only telling you how to use a combo - but also when? Do you the button-combination for Hadokuen along with "Oh, btw, you should use this in that sort of situation"? I know very little about fighting games like that, but the last time I saw a menu in one, it did tell me how to use certain combos, but it didnt tell me if I should use that punch when the opponent was knocked to the ground or had his back turned to me or something like that - thats left for me figure out... OR to consult a guide outside of the game.

And personally I dont only use guides to look up hidden objects - recently my boyfriend and I were playing FFIV: TAY and we had hard time with some demon walls. They didnt kill us constantly or anything like that, but the fights were so long and annoying that we were sure someone must have found a better way to handle them, so we googled it. Someone had found a better way to handle them - sadly it involved spells our casters didnt have yet.
But I have looked up plenty of stuff before thats not only looking for hidden treasures.

[thegreatonemal]

And its not like this game would be hiding your rotations from you - actual melee-combos light up for example and for jobs without them, like bard, blm or smn you get an explantion what the special "trick" to that job is. The game might not highlight the perfect opener for you, but I dare say that someone who looks at all their skills can actually figure a pretty decent one out without looking at a guide.

Is your Street Fighter game not only telling you how to use a combo - but also when? Do you the button-combination for Hadokuen along with "Oh, btw, you should use this in that sort of situation"? I know very little about fighting games like that, but the last time I saw a menu in one, it did tell me how to use certain combos, but it didnt tell me if I should use that punch when the opponent was knocked to the ground or had his back turned to me or something like that - thats left for me figure out... OR to consult a guide outside of the game.

And personally I dont only use guides to look up hidden objects - recently my boyfriend and I were playing FFIV: TAY and we had hard time with some demon walls. They didnt kill us constantly or anything like that, but the fights were so long and annoying that we were sure someone must have found a better way to handle them, so we googled it. Someone had found a better way to handle them - sadly it involved spells our casters didnt have yet.
But I have looked up plenty of stuff before thats not only looking for hidden treasures.

Yea they give you the barest of bones in this game but that isn't enough for ex and savage which we agree needs to change. The difference being I guess you think a parser is the answer. I don't think so as this game even at the highest levels doesn't really need that much detail to kill anything again unless your speed running or testing theories.

[HyoMinPark]

Yea they give you the barest of bones in this game but that isn't enough for ex and savage which we agree needs to change. The difference being I guess you think a parser is the answer. I don't think so as this game even at the highest levels doesn't really need that much detail to kill anything again unless your speed running or testing theories.

Ultimate says hi.

Ultimate is content where you do need that much detail to clear. It’s the only content in this game where 7 people literally cannot carry an 8th who refuses to contribute. They can’t even carry an 8th who doesn’t have a decent understanding of the job they’re playing—my UwU static’s first NIN decided to go MNK for two weeks, and we actually missed DPS checks on some of the primals because he did not have a decent understanding of how MNK functioned compared to his understanding of NIN, and the rest of us just could not push enough personal damage to make up for his massive shortcoming. We did a V6S weekly to help one member get some pieces for SMN (since it was determined that we actually needed a caster for caster LB3), and our NIN - on MNK - did 200 more DPS than me... a BRD. And we were equally geared, except they had an i370 weapon where as I had an i375. Other than that, we were both BiS.

Clearly there was an issue with regards to their performance, and what told us that? A parser.

Parsers can’t force people to improve, but guides and handholding can’t force them to improve either. This game literally holds the hands of every player through most content, yet people still make threads complaining that MSQ instances are “too unforgiving”. The only ones who can make a player improve are themselves - they have to have the motivation to do so.

At least with a parser, determining exactly who is being a burden in weekly clear parties for Savage or primal mount farms would be a lot more obvious, and could be instantly addressed rather than wasting several pulls trying to guess who the problem is (for those that aren’t already parsing the encounter, anyways - not like we’re allowed to say anything though; we’re apparently expected to just grin and bear it). And it would also be nice to have so that the problem player cannot spin the situation around, and try to blame another player - because, boy, I’ve seen that a lot: you call out the underperformer for underperforming, and they either try to blame you or another party member for their shortcomings.

[Vidu]

Yea they give you the barest of bones in this game but that isn't enough for ex and savage which we agree needs to change. The difference being I guess you think a parser is the answer. I don't think so as this game even at the highest levels doesn't really need that much detail to kill anything again unless your speed running or testing theories.

I dont think its the answer - I think its one of many answers, including stuff like better job-guides and stricter gates for endgame content, like a requirement to beat SSS for certain content before you can enter it, aswell as betetr overall feedback.

[Daibunnie]

Yea they give you the barest of bones in this game but that isn't enough for ex and savage which we agree needs to change. The difference being I guess you think a parser is the answer. I don't think so as this game even at the highest levels doesn't really need that much detail to kill anything again unless your speed running or testing theories.

Don't see how you reached that conclusion when 95% of the community never even cleared any savage content, let alone ultimate. Again, the parser shows how many times you used a specific skill, which itself can give a general idea of what a person is doing. If you're a pld at o11s, your only combo should not be just the halone combo and spamming shield lob. Nor should you be spamming cure 1 142 times at The Burn as a whm. The only reason why we even know they did this is because of the parser.