How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Daibunnie]

None of that matters, those logs are based on whoever has logs not every player of the class or what is the limit that class can do in any given fight. Its already biased that 4.9k isn't dead weight you needed it to clear the fight unless you think your pumping out enough damage to clear current content with a dps dead on the floor the entire time. That said kicking people because they don't meet your standards in not the problem nor what anyone was talking about its how you do it. Most of people are not gonna be like "hey your damage is too low we want faster kills bye" Most are gonna be "lol trash sam with 4.5k dps learn your rotation insult x y and z." will all of them be like those two examples no of course not but those will increase. People already do these but they hardly say it to the persons face they just say it to their fcs and linkshells. this games community kinda runs on hear no evil see no evil and you and others don't do it because of the very real chance you get banned for a few days. That's the toxicity people in this thread are referring too

When someone is doing below average dps, gear is the first thing people will check, then their rotation. The problem is usually rotation especially at savage content where ilvl is locked accordingly. Also, people will say what is on their mind. You play like you have no idea what you're doing at endgame, people will criticize, berate, or even mock you whether its in game or online. Because in the end, you're wasting their time when they could've gotten another competent player instead and finished w/e they were doing.

[thegreatonemal]

When someone is doing below average dps, gear is the first thing people will check, then their rotation. The problem is usually rotation especially at savage content where ilvl is locked accordingly. Also, people will say what is on their mind. You play like you have no idea what you're doing at endgame, people will criticize, berate, or even mock you whether its in game or online. Because in the end, you're wasting their time when they could've gotten another competent player instead and finished w/e they were doing.

So instead of linking them to the balance discord then kicking them and moving on people harass which will increase with an official parser. Add that on to the fact that parser aren't really needed for anything outside of theory testing and speed runs. so why waste dev time on that. It would be better if they added the rotations to the game and a way to practice it kinda like fighting games do.

[Zephera]

So instead of linking them to the balance discord then kicking them and moving on people harass which will increase with an official parser.

You cannot prove this. Also it's been said already, but if someone is going to harass then they'll do it anyway, parser of not.

[Daibunnie]

So instead of linking them to the balance discord then kicking them and moving on people harass which will increase with an official parser. Add that on to the fact that parser aren't really needed for anything outside of theory testing and speed runs. so why waste dev time on that. It would be better if they added the rotations to the game and a way to practice it kinda like fighting games do.

Things like a balance discord can easily be searched on their own time instead of expecting their party to do it for them. Also, you should NOT be in any clear party if you need a rotation guide of any sort, which are readily available online. A parser can tell you how many times a player is using a particular skill, what they’re dying to, how much dps is being dealt. All useful to clear efficiently.

[thegreatonemal]

Things like a balance discord can easily be searched on their own time instead of expecting their party to do it for them. Also, you should NOT be in any clear party if you need a rotation guide of any sort, which are readily available online. A parser can tell you how many times a player is using a particular skill, what they’re dying to, how much dps is being dealt. All useful to clear efficiently.

This might be news to you but most people don't google how to play video games they buy this problem is an mmo in general issue. when i play street fighter or ff7 i don't have to google how to do haduken or insert materia I press pause and go down to move list or have a tutorial on that very subject when it becomes relevant to the game that I can revisit anytime I please

[Daibunnie]

This might be news to you but most people don't google how to play video games they buy this problem is an mmo in general issue. when i play street fighter or ff7 i don't have to google how to do haduken or insert materia I press pause and go down to move list and have a tutorial on that very subject when it becomes relevant to the game that I can revisit anytime I please

Those players should stay out of savage content then. There's a reason why almost every party on pf doing savage, even practice parties, asks you to either have watched a video or know what you're doing. If you can't be bothered to even search up a basic rotation, why shoudn't people kick and berate you when you end up being the sole reason the party is getting held back? When you play any fighting game online, I really doubt you're looking up a combo list while your opponent is beating you senseless.

[Sigma-Astra]

This might be news to you but most people don't google how to play video games they buy this problem is an mmo in general issue

No, because back before Googling was a thing to do, we had Bradley Strategy Game guides for almost every type of game which might be news to you. Whether you google information or read it in a book/tutorial, it gives you the same end results. The means on how to achieve the result shouldn't matter here.

There were strategy guides for FF7 as well.

Your argument that people didn't use guides on how to play video games is a poor one. It's not just an MMO issue.

You literally need a guide to play Final Fantasy X-2 or you're not getting that 100% completion ending.

[thegreatonemal]

No, because back before Googling was a thing to do, we had Bradley Strategy Game guides for almost every type of game which might be news to you. Whether you google information or read it in a book/tutorial, it gives you the same end results. The means on how to achieve the result shouldn't matter here.

There were strategy guides for FF7 as well.

Your argument that people didn't use guides on how to play video games is a poor one. It's not just an MMO issue.

You literally need a guide to play Final Fantasy X-2 or you're not getting that 100% completion ending.

And all of those games had in game tutorials on the major game mechanics you brought those guides so you could find all the hidden optional items not how to play the game. knowing your rotation is the single most important thing when it comes to doing the end game content in this game. that IS an mmo issue.

[Vidu]

And all of those games had in game tutorials on the major game mechanics you brought those guides so you could find all the hidden optional items not how to play the game. knowing your rotation is the single most important thing when it comes to doing the end game content in this game. that IS an mmo issue.

And its not like this game would be hiding your rotations from you - actual melee-combos light up for example and for jobs without them, like bard, blm or smn you get an explantion what the special "trick" to that job is. The game might not highlight the perfect opener for you, but I dare say that someone who looks at all their skills can actually figure a pretty decent one out without looking at a guide.

Is your Street Fighter game not only telling you how to use a combo - but also when? Do you the button-combination for Hadokuen along with "Oh, btw, you should use this in that sort of situation"? I know very little about fighting games like that, but the last time I saw a menu in one, it did tell me how to use certain combos, but it didnt tell me if I should use that punch when the opponent was knocked to the ground or had his back turned to me or something like that - thats left for me figure out... OR to consult a guide outside of the game.

And personally I dont only use guides to look up hidden objects - recently my boyfriend and I were playing FFIV: TAY and we had hard time with some demon walls. They didnt kill us constantly or anything like that, but the fights were so long and annoying that we were sure someone must have found a better way to handle them, so we googled it. Someone had found a better way to handle them - sadly it involved spells our casters didnt have yet.
But I have looked up plenty of stuff before thats not only looking for hidden treasures.

[Aerlana]

that IS an mmo issue.

All game are not the same...
When you go on versus fighting game, for the hardest fight, or PvP one, yo uhave to master your character, his combos.
When you go on RTS game, you have to know well each of your own units, how they are countered by ennemies units, how to counter ennemies units.
When you go to FPS, you know each weapon, what you can do with each, which to snipe, which to close fight. and you have to train your aiming (nothing in the game directly train your aiming, only you)


FFXIV and most MMORPG get tutorials. the leveling is a tutorial. you get a skill, a second, then you learn to play with both. a third skill come, and you have to understand how those 3 work together, then after many levels you get 20 skills, and some of those you had in begining did change a little. There is tutorial. But you know what, after understanding what is the best rotation (and it is confirmed by... parsers) you have to master it. and adapt on all fight (i am not doing strictly the same thing on all fight. some didnt need me to move a lot, other yes. but as BLM, when i move... )


The parser is not needed to know how to play the game, the parser is needed to know how to master your job !
Then yes some people needs guide to understand how to play their job... back in ARR i remember a paladin tanking a dongeon... spamming flash and halone... nothing else.

But when people always needs some guide to get at least a decent work (i dont ask the samurai to do 6k8 like the 75th percentile, but, please at least a 6k not 4k...) the matter is not mine, it is their matter. If they come to a content not ready enough, they waste the time of the 7 other people that TOOK the time, before the content, to be ready...


the parser is not a solution to the lack of steps of learning. but it stays a tool to master your job more, more and more. the same guy working with parser will progress faster than without... Because he will faster and more clearly know what are his mistakes