How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Sigma-Astra]

This is exactly what we want to do though. I don't know why you can't understand this.

It's Riyah, that's why. If we ask for the rest of the players to have the common decency and courtesy to read shit before they click on it, apparently we're the bad guys and that's asking for far too much.

Basic reading comprehension is a must-have, not an optional privilege in party finder.

[thegreatonemal]

If you have not been kicked, at least you know you did a good job. good enough for what we waited from you. Simply. Kicking is not a random thing.

But... when i read the first part of your message. You clearly says than seeing and doing things depending of people performance is bad in a system where you can choose with who you play?
So lets randomize all team in all game for everything. When you see the top team of league of legend, or counterstrike in the annual championship. they do select people, they throw away deadweight...

on OW when a game finished, you can choose between staying with the same people, or let the game choose your new teammate. With what you says, it is toxic to click "no" if you consider them bad... right?

You keep saying things like this but heres a question what and who determines whats good and bad? That dps doing 4.9k might be bad to you but as far as the content and the game is concerned is fine. This isn't a pro league competitive game so your counter example doesn't work as long as the bosses hp is at 0% before the hard enrage finishes casting no one was dead weight. You might think that based on logs from other people or looking at what the class is theoretically capable of doing at any given item level.

[Daibunnie]

You keep saying things like this but heres a question what and who determines whats good and bad? That dps doing 4.9k might be bad to you but as far as the content and the game is concerned is fine. This isn't a pro league competitive game so your counter example doesn't work as long as the bosses hp is at 0% before the hard enrage finishes casting no one was dead weight. You might think that based on logs from other people or looking at what the class is theoretically capable of doing at any given item level.

The current parser can list how well each player performed as a percentile. A dps doing only 6% of the boss' hp as opposed to the 2 healers who did 10% each, is easily unacceptable and warrants a kick if anyone notices. Most people won't care as long as they clear yes, but that dps was the one who the party had to carry the entire fight.

[Aerlana]

*snip*

Yes, watching logs for example. logs not only show "the top players" you can see the DPS at the 75 percentil. it is the DPS where 25% people are doing more, and 75% are doing less.
Right now, if i watch on FFlogs for O9S, the DPS of the 75th percentil is from 5900 (ninja) to 6900 (samurai).
Now, lets go to O9S savage, mechanics are done well, but third try, third wipe on enrage. you see your parser, and find a samurai with 4k5 DPS... Yes he is bad. Now here is the deal
1) i says him to move his ass and get better DPS => toxic because i want him to play better
2) i kick him to take a new melee that will do enough damages => toxic because i kick
3) i stay with him, without saying anything, hoping a miracle.
4) disband

You want the 3, you choice. Me i prefer first saying him he has to be better, and if it doesnt show any improvement, sadly ill kick him...



Now for farms situation same logic. i go watch the 75th percentil because i want to farm fast. (so get some quite fast clear) DPS are from 5k to 5k8. if i find the kills quite slow, and see a guy at 4k...


FUN FACT : no need to FFlogs most of time to see there is a matter... i never used worldoflogs (or warcraftlogs now) to know it when i was raid lead.
Just, i see some people really far behind... like a healer doing half the work the others are doing. or a DPS doing far less than any other. Rarely i had situation where i had doubt and had to mind about strength/weakness of the class on this fight.
And parsers not only show DPS/HPS. damages receive, number of dispells (more fight ask it in WoW) number of interrupt cast, overhealing. The wow parser i have also show me how muchthis heal did get mana back during fight (helping to understand why he is so low than the others... easier to give him advices). With just one fight, you can get numerous information about playstyle when you take the time to read it fully... To kick people that dont have their spot in THIS party. and also seeing any matter to give advice !

When anyone create a party, HE decides the rules. if he decides to get only elite people, over the 90th percentil, or really open minded and take anyone over the 25th percentil, it is his matter.
Where is the toxicity there? because i am not enough openminded to carry anyone thru the farm or in the savage content? It is this the "toxicity" you fear about official parser?

[Ameela]

You keep saying things like this but heres a question what and who determines whats good and bad? That dps doing 4.9k might be bad to you but as far as the content and the game is concerned is fine. This isn't a pro league competitive game so your counter example doesn't work as long as the bosses hp is at 0% before the hard enrage finishes casting no one was dead weight. You might think that based on logs from other people or looking at what the class is theoretically capable of doing at any given item level.

Sell runs are literally just 7 people carrying an 8th party member that's dead weight, most even kill themselves before the fight starts.
Yes the boss reached 0 HP but the other members had to make up for the slacking party member, if all party members were equally slacking they wouldn't clear.

[thegreatonemal]

Yes, watching logs for example. logs not only show "the top players" you can see the DPS at the 75 percentil. it is the DPS where 25% people are doing more, and 75% are doing less.
Right now, if i watch on FFlogs for O9S, the DPS of the 75th percentil is from 5900 (ninja) to 6900 (samurai).
Now, lets go to O9S savage, mechanics are done well, but third try, third wipe on enrage. you see your parser, and find a samurai with 4k5 DPS... Yes he is bad. Now here is the deal
1) i says him to move his ass and get better DPS => toxic because i want him to play better
2) i kick him to take a new melee that will do enough damages => toxic because i kick
3) i stay with him, without saying anything, hoping a miracle.
4) disband

You want the 3, you choice. Me i prefer first saying him he has to be better, and if it doesnt show any improvement, sadly ill kick him...



Now for farms situation same logic. i go watch the 75th percentil because i want to farm fast. (so get some quite fast clear) DPS are from 5k to 5k8. if i find the kills quite slow, and see a guy at 4k...


FUN FACT : no need to FFlogs most of time to see there is a matter... i never used worldoflogs (or warcraftlogs now) to know it when i was raid lead.
Just, i see some people really far behind... like a healer doing half the work the others are doing. or a DPS doing far less than any other. Rarely i had situation where i had doubt and had to mind about strength/weakness of the class on this fight.


When anyone create a party, HE decides the rules. if he decides to get only elite people, over the 90th percentil, or really open minded and take anyone over the 25th percentil, it is his matter.
Where is the toxicity there? because i am not enough openminded to carry anyone thru the farm or in the savage content? It is this the "toxicity" you fear about official parser?

None of that matters, those logs are based on whoever has logs not every player of the class or what is the limit that class can do in any given fight. Its already biased that 4.9k isn't dead weight you needed it to clear the fight unless you think your pumping out enough damage to clear current content with a dps dead on the floor the entire time.

That said kicking people because they don't meet your standards in not the problem nor what anyone was talking about its how you do it. Most of people are not gonna be like "hey your damage is too low we want faster kills bye" Most are gonna be "lol trash sam with 4.5k dps learn your rotation insult x y and z." will all of them be like those two examples no of course not but those will increase. People already do these but they hardly say it to the persons face they just say it to their fcs and linkshells. this games community kinda runs on hear no evil see no evil and you and others don't do it openly because of the very real chance you get banned for a few days. That's the toxicity people in this thread are referring too.

[greytonberry]

Day-????

I've lost count, the days blend in with one another, time ceases to be a thing, the world is crumbling around me. I don't know who I am, where I am, or what I am. The only thing I know for sure is that parsers are the evil.

[Ilan]

Consoles are pretty expensive themselves but I'm not a gamer so yea... Unless only playing FF14 is considered being a gamer.

Consoles don't need to be upgraded as fast as PC's do and its cheaper to buy a console than a PC. Sure console games are most of the time more expensive but the console itself is cheaper than a decent PC.

[Daibunnie]

None of that matters, those logs are based on whoever has logs not every player of the class or what is the limit that class can do in any given fight. Its already biased that 4.9k isn't dead weight you needed it to clear the fight unless you think your pumping out enough damage to clear current content with a dps dead on the floor the entire time. That said kicking people because they don't meet your standards in not the problem nor what anyone was talking about its how you do it. Most of people are not gonna be like "hey your damage is too low we want faster kills bye" Most are gonna be "lol trash sam with 4.5k dps learn your rotation insult x y and z." will all of them be like those two examples no of course not but those will increase. People already do these but they hardly say it to the persons face they just say it to their fcs and linkshells. this games community kinda runs on hear no evil see no evil and you and others don't do it because of the very real chance you get banned for a few days. That's the toxicity people in this thread are referring too

When someone is doing below average dps, gear is the first thing people will check, then their rotation. The problem is usually rotation especially at savage content where ilvl is locked accordingly. Also, people will say what is on their mind. You play like you have no idea what you're doing at endgame, people will criticize, berate, or even mock you whether its in game or online. Because in the end, you're wasting their time when they could've gotten another competent player instead and finished w/e they were doing.

[thegreatonemal]

When someone is doing below average dps, gear is the first thing people will check, then their rotation. The problem is usually rotation especially at savage content where ilvl is locked accordingly. Also, people will say what is on their mind. You play like you have no idea what you're doing at endgame, people will criticize, berate, or even mock you whether its in game or online. Because in the end, you're wasting their time when they could've gotten another competent player instead and finished w/e they were doing.

So instead of linking them to the balance discord then kicking them and moving on people harass which will increase with an official parser. Add that on to the fact that parser aren't really needed for anything outside of theory testing and speed runs. so why waste dev time on that. It would be better if they added the rotations to the game and a way to practice it kinda like fighting games do.