How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So instead of making countless threads about how the devs should be putting the rotations in the game we make them about wanting parsers so we can do the devs job for them.

No one is saying that exclusion doesn't happen what they are saying is that it will happen more quite a bit more. If parsers become official it basically acceptable to harass people and openly exclude them from things justified or no. the only reason people don't do it as often now is how strict SE is with harassment.

Find me a single post in this entire thread endorsing harassment. I'll wait.

Excluding players who do not mean the group's expectations isn't harassment nor am I obligated to help you clear. Your assumption it will happen with more regularity is simply that: an assumption. I disagree. Now we're an impasse, except I can fall back on parsers already existing and they aren't causing the problems you claim.

Frankly, they should do both. But at least a parse allows people to see the end result, especially those on PS4 who have to rely on someone else to see if they're improving.

[Aerlana]

*snip*

Rules about harassment are NOT depending of the tools the game offers. Official parser is just the "official" tool. nothing more, not a "ok, now you can spit on other people". I can give you an axe tomorrow, i wont allow you to use it on anything else than the trees with a red cross.
Now where do you see harassment about parser? Because from the begining we ask "what is this toxicity you speak about" when anyone says this. but, if it is only the "kick because too bad" ... not harassment. just "selecting people due to their capacity".
If you cut me a tree a day when the other can do 4 trees a day... not sure i will keep you in my team.

[MageBlack]

Love this thread, It answers its own question and not in the way it set out to. But carry on arguing guys! I got a fresh bowl of popcorn!

[Sigma-Astra]

What excluding people based on a few results in a third party website that doesn't even need you to sign up to it, your all just proving to me the worst of what I think of this games raiding player base.

If you think XIV's raiding base is terrible and the worst kinds of toxic people, don't work in retail then or customer service, you'd never last a day.

[Daibunnie]

Why are you doing farm parties in pf with randoms though? If you can't get 8 people together to do it, you need to spend less time griping about carries and more time making friends. The raiders in this game are odd that way; no one expects to speedkill stuff over and over in the hardest content in the game with randoms. Yet in this game they complain when it happens. In most other games, if you want to do this you do it with a guild specifically designed for endgame raiding.

Why are casuals joining parties they have no business being in? If you can't even play properly, you need to stay out of the clear and farm parties and spend more time actually learning how to play your class and learn the mechanics of the fight instead of dragging everyone down with you just because of your own greed to get a clear. Raiders expect everyone to at least know how to play the game before even attempting savage content. In this game, you have casuals who can't even recognize what a stack marker is nor even understand the basics of their own class at endgame. In most games, these kinds of players are left behind and no one would want them in any sort of party.

[thegreatonemal]

Find me a single post in this entire thread endorsing harassment. I'll wait.

Excluding players who do not mean the group's expectations isn't harassment nor am I obligated to help you clear. Your assumption it will happen with more regularity is simply that: an assumption. I disagree. Now we're an impasse, except I can fall back on parsers already existing and they aren't causing the problems you claim.

Frankly, they should do both. But at least a parse allows people to see the end result, especially those on PS4 who have to rely on someone else to see if they're improving.

Umm no one said or implied that so what?
The group most people don't vote to kick people in a pf environment party leader says replacing they back out and the party leader kicks someone or multiple people. Compare your parase to how people treat K/D in FPS games it be the same kinds of toxic stuff gms might not be able to keep up with all the claims. So no, not an assumption just a trend that happens in lots of games with rankings in any kind of way allowing an official parse allows that ranking and opens the door to all of that. We could argue about this all day but I'd rather not.

Being on ps4 I know the issues it causes for my own personal improvement of not being able to parse myself and being at the mercy of a pc player who treats his logs as a highlight reel instead of a more accurate representation on your gradual improvement. for all of the logs i have I've probably done better and worse but because i'm on ps4 I can't know for sure. annoying to be sure. But the way this game is setup my own desire to test the micro improvements to my rotation are pointless the boss still died at the same time and we got the loot. The negatives outweigh the positives

[Aerlana]

*snip*

If you have not been kicked, at least you know you did a good job. good enough for what we waited from you. Simply. Kicking is not a random thing.

But... when i read the first part of your message. You clearly says than seeing and doing things depending of people performance is bad in a system where you can choose with who you play?
So lets randomize all team in all game for everything. When you see the top team of league of legend, or counterstrike in the annual championship. they do select people, they throw away deadweight...

on OW when a game finished, you can choose between staying with the same people, or let the game choose your new teammate. With what you says, it is toxic to click "no" if you consider them bad... right?

[RiyahArp]

Then how about you stop demanding everyone else to carry the scrubs that don't know how to play and take the initiative to get better. The fix is to point out what those scrubs are doing wrong in the first place which will be easier to do with a parser.

I never argued anyone should be carried. I am arguing that if you expect people to get better as solution, it's never going to happen. You can only change yourself, and choose who you hang around with. If you rely on random people, you get random results. If you think the devs can fix that, you're going to get disappointed.

I'm going to be honest, I do not care if a person fails to improve even if a parser was added. I care about having a tool that allows me to weed out the dead weight easier. The faster I can weed the garden, the sooner I can put the bad player on my blacklist and never have to deal with them again.

Then over time you will end up in a static by default, because you'll get tired of that and just play with people you trust, which solves that problem a lot better than constantly blacklisting people.

Actually...yeah, we can.

Yeah, you can kick. but you can't expect all random people to be good. You have to accept that a lot will be bad or mediocre. A lot of people here are really wanting to solve people being bad at the hardest content in the game, and that's not going to happen.

[Rangar]

An official parser would be nice, but could only realistically work by being limited to the player, and NEVER include the party (even though there's already hoards of people running them regardless). It's always comes down to the issue of singling out people for "bad numbers" that keeps this from being a thing.

[MageBlack]

An official parser would be nice, but could only realistically work by being limited to the player, and NEVER include the party (even though there's already hoards of people running them regardless). It's always comes down to the issue of singling out people for "bad numbers" that keeps this from being a thing.

I think that is the only realistic solution to this is a personal parser. It would be good to have an official parser, so PS4 players can use one, but it needs to be something for personal improvement.