How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Ranetsu-Akagane]

Or the randoms could have a shred of decency and not join content they aren't ready for just expecting the rest of the party to carry them? Just a thought.

Don't you understand, if I'm feeling lazy or don't feel like trying you're obligated to carry me! (I'm joking of course)

I really wish SE could change their stance on parsers, I mean they know people use them. I know they don't want people having their numbers mentioned, but I have to ask if I'm in a raid, and my damage is too low, wouldn't it only be fair if someone told me? I'd rather be told I'm not ready and to work on my damage and leave, than to be carried because I didn't earn the clear that way. I don't see someone telling me my damage is low or bad harassment, but maybe I'm just missing something?

[Zephera]

You rely on randoms, you take what you can get.

No we don't. We kick underperformers, not carry them. You can waste time carrying if you want, but if I make a PF I'm going to pick and choose who stays, that's my right as the person who started the group.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Do you not get that if you try and do any hard content with randoms, you are going to get these issues? Do you think a parser is going to change this? It won't. Farming 99 tokens, yeesh, like its easier to do this with people whom you don't know, can leave at a moments notice, can vary widely in skill even if they use a parser, can be argumentative, and more. You think its a parser issue when its a random issue, and there's never going to be a time when pugs are going to be "solved" because we have a parser. Smart people build statics and do content in them; the raiders in this game are trying to fix something that can't be fixed, when the fix is to do content with people you trust.

Actually, it's quite easy if you get decently competent people. No, that doesn't mean orange caliber WF raiders. Even an average player is perfectly fine, provided they're putting forth an effort and contributing at a decent rate, i.e., a Samurai doing in the ballpark of 6k. Funny enough, I pugged Tsukiyomi EX with four randoms and three friends. We wound up doing parse runs and trying to phase her early and skip the second half of phase two. Four randoms and we're pulling meme shit because everyone knew what they were doing, we're friendly and contributed. Walked away with a dozen or so clears in only a couple hours. Likewise, I met my BFF in a random party whom I now raid with. If I followed your sagely, totally not bias at all, advice, I wouldn't have either of these experiences. I suppose it's just pure toxic of me to put in an actual effort.

Here's the difference, Riyah. When I started tanking Shinryu EX, I joined learning parties despite having cleared multiple times. I even had the dog. Why was I in learning parties? Because I didn't know the fight from a tank perspective and wanted to brush up on mechanics so I wouldn't be a liability. Meanwhile, in a Tsukiyomi EX party, I have a Samurai doing a 1,000 DPS less than me despite having better gear. But when I mention our damage is low, he calls me shit.

So... who's the toxic person in this scenario? I'll give you one guess who had a magical abacus and who didn't.

You rely on randoms, you take what you can get. There's no way the devs can solve this by adding a parser, because most people who do endgame already use or can easily use them. If you don't like it, don't rely on randoms, and don't raid if "real life issues" make it so you can't show up frequently. Go build a cross server linkshell, or a server fc full of enough competent people that they can cover for the times when real life does intrude. If you try and force a fix through dev means, it's probably going to backfire; it may keep the bads out, but it may also end up keeping the people who would try and improve out too.

People who try and improve will continue doing so through learning parties. Contrary to popular belief, raiders are pretty chill if you're putting forth an effort. I've partied with World First raiders and most of them have all been quite helpful. The only people a parse keeps out are lazy, inconsiderate people who feel entitled to your time. If someone's too intimated to improve because parsers are now okay publicly, they have no business being in farm or clear parties until they're ready. How do you they'll feel getting kicked silently, with no explanation whatsoever on what they're doing wrong?

[HyoMinPark]

You rely on randoms, you take what you can get.

This is a sad mindset to have. Why should we have to settle for the healer that can't actually keep a party alive in Suzaku Ex? Or the tank that can't hold aggro on her? Or the DPS that can't do more than 3,000 DPS? Or any party member that dies to every mechanic she has?

There's no way the devs can solve this by adding a parser, because most people who do endgame already use or can easily use them. If you don't like it, don't rely on randoms, and don't raid if "real life issues" make it so you can't show up frequently.

Ah, yes. How dare I be a full-time student trying to get a degree, and how dare I be unwilling to drop my classes at a moment's notice to farm content outside of scheduled raid times! How dare my other static mates not call out of work to help me farm a mount! How dare they drop their social lives on Friday nights to not help me get a weapon! How dare my friends not log in the second I demand it so we can do Suzaku Ex! How dare I not do that! How dare any of the raiders in this game not do that!

Give me a break, Riyah. You don't have an actual argument here.

Go build a cross server linkshell, or a server fc full of enough competent people that they can cover for the times when real life does intrude. If you try and force a fix through dev means, it's probably going to backfire; it may keep the bads out, but it may also end up keeping the people who would try and improve out too.

Already have a CWLS for this, thank you. Sucks you can only have one though, because I can't invite the other raider friends I have that are in other CWLS already. I also have Discord servers where I can ask for help if a group needs a fill in. But again - this may shock you, Riyah - sometimes people aren't available at the drop of a hat to join a farm party because they have lives outside the game.

If people want to try and improve, the place for that is NOT a farm party. You don't try to learn your 70 rotation in Suzaku Ex. You don't practice an opener in V9S.


I suppose my earlier questions to you were answered: clearly it is a crime to expect competency in farm parties. Clearly it is a crime to expect randoms to know the content and know their rotations, and to not sneak into groups lying about their experience.

sheesh, this game has the least time-demanding endgame of any mmo out there. Schedule your farms for one night a week for two or three hours; if people can't make it to that, they probably should consider if raiding is what they want to do. Because in other games there would be none of this, you get kicked if you don't show up on time enough. And you make sure you schedule things so people can plan for it. If you consistently need to pug stuff, that's a people failure; you need to talk to the people who aren't showing up and see what's up.

My static was meeting 4 days a week when we were progging UwU. We upped that to 5 days some weeks, especially towards the end of 4.3. We've still been putting in extra days since 4.4 launched for both Alphascape and UwU, but we've tried to back off because - wait for it - we have other obligations now where we can't always meet every night to raid! I have class 3 days a week, and Sundays are dedicated to spending time with my family. Some members have work 5 or 6 days a week, come home to raid, go to sleep, and rinse repeat. We were nothing but obligated to our prog, and we still are. This last week we added in the weekends!

The day they pick to farm Suzaku Ex for weapons or mounts I may not be able to join because I have other responsibilities like, I dunno, studying for exams. It's shocking that they may be more important than the game, I know. I farm for dogs when I have the time. That free time may not always match up with my friends or my static mates. So I turn to party finder. But yes, I know, we are all at fault here for not dropping everything for a video game.

My other friends have their own statics that meet, and they may be raiding with them when I want to farm for a dog. Or they may be in school. Or spending time with their families. But that's still somehow our fault, right? Yes, it is the raiders' faults for having other obligations outside of the game. And, as a consequence, they should settle for that RDM who has "seen enrage" but dies to every mechanic. They should settle for the WHM that heals with Medica II only. They should settle for the tank that can't Provoke/Shirk for swaps, or hold aggro. Yes. Clearly.

Again. You don't have an actual argument here.

[Ameela]

You rely on randoms, you take what you can get. There's no way the devs can solve this by adding a parser, because most people who do endgame already use or can easily use them. If you don't like it, don't rely on randoms, and don't raid if "real life issues" make it so you can't show up frequently. Go build a cross server linkshell, or a server fc full of enough competent people that they can cover for the times when real life does intrude. If you try and force a fix through dev means, it's probably going to backfire; it may keep the bads out, but it may also end up keeping the people who would try and improve out too.

Maybe once this game moves away from its archaic looting system for savage that discourages people from participating in a fight after getting their weekly clear with a premade that'd actually work.

[Selova]

And this is why FFlogs is Toxic.

Because having expectations for your group and not wanting to carry people who either don't know the fight or are under-performing and holding the group back from a clear is a clear sign of toxicity am i right? This community sometimes, good lord.

[RiyahArp]

No we don't. We kick underperformers, not carry them. You can waste time carrying if you want, but if I make a PF I'm going to pick and choose who stays, that's my right as the person who started the group.

You're wasting time doing runs with randoms, waiting for them to fill your pugs on farm parties and more, and them kicking them when they underperform or wipe you. If the content is hard enough, you're much better off not doing that and not hoping the randoms will be fixed by whatever half-ass measure the devs put out, and instead do it with a static and save PF for less demanding things.

Ah, yes. How dare I be a full-time student trying to get a degree

If you have less time to play, scheduling is far more important precisely because you aren't logging on and waiting for pugs or other players and wiping because you have to kick dps. If you can't make a scheduled day consistently because your schedule is that fluid, you probably shouldn't play. Especially if a student, mmos have caused a lot of people to drop out.

I think a lot of the issue here is that there really isn't the social aspect to MMOs that you had in other games, the rules that made it possible to act smoothly. The static/raid fc model would do things like consistently schedule, recruit and train new players, etc. here its just everyone gets together when they want and for what they want and expects to do the hardest content in the game without a hitch. When they can't, they expect the devs to fix it and blame players.

[jameseoakes]

Because having expectations for your group and not wanting to carry people who either don't know the fight or are under-performing and holding the group back from a clear is a clear sign of toxicity am i right? This community sometimes, good lord.

What excluding people based on a few results in a third party website that doesn't even need you to sign up to it, your all just proving to me the worst of what I think of this games raiding player base.

[Ameela]

You're wasting time doing runs with randoms, waiting for them to fill your pugs on farm parties and more, and them kicking them when they underperform or wipe you. If the content is hard enough, you're much better off not doing that and not hoping the randoms will be fixed by whatever half-ass measure the devs put out, and instead do it with a static and save PF for less demanding things.

PF was made for finding like-minded people to do content with, it's purposefully designed so you can control who gets in your party so you can have the smoothest run possible.
"Less demanding content" is what DF is for, as that's where you're actually not in control of who's in your party.

[MoroMurasaki]

You rely on randoms, you take what you can get. There's no way the devs can solve this by adding a parser, because most people who do endgame already use or can easily use them. If you don't like it, don't rely on randoms, and don't raid if "real life issues" make it so you can't show up frequently. Go build a cross server linkshell, or a server fc full of enough competent people that they can cover for the times when real life does intrude. If you try and force a fix through dev means, it's probably going to backfire; it may keep the bads out, but it may also end up keeping the people who would try and improve out too.



sheesh, this game has the least time-demanding endgame of any mmo out there. Schedule your farms for one night a week for two or three hours; if people can't make it to that, they probably should consider if raiding is what they want to do. Because in other games there would be none of this, you get kicked if you don't show up on time enough. And you make sure you schedule things so people can plan for it. If you consistently need to pug stuff, that's a people failure; you need to talk to the people who aren't showing up and see what's up.

Are you trolling? I know you sometimes have opinions that might be less-than-informed but this is a new low.

Between people having different school, work and irl schedules in general there are a lot of times that someone might be looking for a farm party but not have a full group available to them. The Discord that I'm in with Hyo, Cass, Sigma and others has at least 20 people in it who are all reasonably active but we don't all play together all the time because we all have different lives outside of the game. Also, while I can't speak for them, I don't want to entirely insulate myself in a bubble of my friends because it makes venturing outside of that bubble... disappointing. I have tried.

Between my FC and that discord and the one I spoke of I probably have upwards of 50 people who I enjoy playing with and can contact... and yet I work from 4~6am until 3~4pm EST. By your logic I should just give up on raiding because I have a job.

This is perhaps your weakest argument to date. Please cease.