On this post i will speak about what i see on wow. I am sorry i dont like doing long post only speaking about wow (or other game than FFXIV). But i think it is the best way to explain my PoV there.

Quote Originally Posted by SleepyNeko View Post
It is same as the WoW Addon, even though they don't support it, they also don't restrict it, therefore it is more accepted to drop "under performing" players and benching others.
Just, i would like to understand why it is toxic.
Except particulary problematics players, never saw a 1 wipe = kick time". Saw it with people that said "i know strategy" and failed to basic mechanics (so he lied and the run was intended to people knowing mechanics ! ).

Most of time, we have to see 2-3 wipe before a raidlead decide to begin the kicking of "bad" people (even on DPS and on mechanics ). But we speak heroic/mythic raid run, where we want people to perform.

Also, in normal run (as hard as story mode) we can see it... but with "toxic bad players" because failing in NM... 1 time ok, but more...

For LFR, yes, sometime there is kick, when we get 4-5 time the buff from wipe, the parsers says some are REALLY to low DPS (close to tanks... or even lower!) or are unable to follow strategy ( we speak about a difficulty where strategy are really basics !)
I already saw, on LFR, some of the good DPS people being kicked because they were dumbass you know. (and strangely, just kicking them made the run better after...)

BUT for me, toxicity is "elitists" players that ask you to be perfect because he is (in fact he thinks he is). But Toxic players are also those who hopes to be carried on the content by other players.

We have to "live" together. yes, we have to admit "low playing" people with us. I never waited a sprout icon to help a guy who looks newbie on MMORPG. Also, even from my own guild, if i thought the guy was not able, for now, to do what we wait from him in a specific content, i said to just not come. Because when we are 8 to try on any content, getting slowed by only one guy is realyl frustrating for the others. Finally i always helped even the worst player of my guilds, but later... 1 month, 2 month, when all get enough stuff and knowledge about the fight to make it smooth with 7 people and 1 deadweight.
I speak "myself" and so speak about my life, because i dont want to say "most pro parser people thinks like this" but i clearly think i am not alone.



Quote Originally Posted by jameseoakes View Post
And this is why FFlogs is Toxic.
So what? you want SE to close this site? they cant.
SE could block ACT/FFXIVapp (and other parsing program) and they don't do (maybe not so easy, or prefer to let a little parsing exists for theorycrafters, etc etc etc).

But fun fact, on wow, we are on the 3rd week of the new raid on wow, the last boss in heroic mode become common to be killed, but not all already achieved it.
There is numerous party in the PF, and i did see, in 3 week only 5 party forming with "checking warcraft logs" (and if i dont do mistake, it is 2 people doing this). I am not even sure they gets better results than other team (i think to the one i was in this week, with a good raidlead... people heared, obey and all was smooth, he didnt even ask the proof of last boss kills just the boss before him that are clearly easier)

The "toxic wow players" dont recruit due to logs and FFXIV some does?
I think because wow dont get all those discussion about toxicity of parsers. Some people stays in content where Duty Finder is (heroic dongeon, the LFR) where they rarely get matters due to their lack of DPS (and not all are "bad" !) and others go to the Party Finder, go in front of the raid entry, run with a group of people, with one guy as leader that can decide who he will kick. Some are dumb, some are really good guys, we all know the risks when joining. And the funniest, a raidlead who kicks "stupidly" generally regret it, because many people will complain about this and get away from the party.

On WoW we dont think "we have the holy mission to carry bad people". Only those who wants this does this. (and when raid is well cleared by most players, we see some PF forming clearly to help other people) Those who doesnt care just dont. And people wanting to be carried whine or train to be at least "good enough"...

But hum... and if great part of those people waiting to be carried found what they wanted on Final Fantasy XIV finally ?