How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[jameseoakes]

People who don't have logs or elect to hide them are typically kicked from weekly Savage parties. They can be kicked from EX Primals too, but that isn't as common. Basically, the exclude you're accusing an official parse of already happens. Not using FFlogs only makes people assume you have something to hide.

And this is why FFlogs is Toxic.

[KaivaC]

And this is why FFlogs is Toxic.

Why? If you're joining somebody else's party and you don't meet their expectations (and we know there are varied expectations, like being a Lala, a SAM, etc.), they have the right to kick you out of their group. If you join their party, and you are holding them back or causing the fight to go on longer than necessary, then they have a right to kick you. That's not toxicity. You just don't meet their expectations.

[jameseoakes]

Why? If you're joining somebody else's party and you don't meet their expectations (and we know there are varied expectations, like being a Lala, a SAM, etc.), they have the right to kick you out of their group. If you join their party, and you are holding them back or causing the fight to go on longer than necessary, then they have a right to kick you. That's not toxicity. You just don't meet their expectations.

I'll consider FFlogs toxic until it becomes opt in rather than opt out. You've no evidence they are holding you back you've just looked at website they probably don't know exists or don't want to use.

[Legion88]

I'll consider FFlogs toxic until it becomes opt in rather than opt out. You've no evidence they are holding you back you've just looked at website they probably don't know exists or don't want to use.

Opt in wouldn't change anything. Exluding people would exclude people without parses nontheless.

The general question is: Why is it toxic to say someone is playing below a needed personal skill level but not toxic to sneak into content who is beyond your own skill level and experience?

[HyoMinPark]

I'll consider FFlogs toxic until it becomes opt in rather than opt out. You've no evidence they are holding you back you've just looked at website they probably don't know exists or don't want to use.

Generally, though, when someone with green/grays joins a party, their performance well matches what you've seen on the site. I do sometimes check when people join PFs I'm in, and they usually do a pretty good job of living up to what their logs show. And this is for any percentile, not just the low ones. Having a few low parses but several average or above average ones is one thing; having nothing but low is another.

I consider people who try to sneak into farm parties or weekly 2-chest parties that have no idea what they're doing in the content pretty inconsiderate. Some people may be okay with carrying them, but not everyone. And not everyone should be expected to, either.

Thanks to you I learned about Resource Monitor. Now I can use it to check when the next time I start the game.

Not a problem. To open it, I generally do it through Task Manager > Performance tab. There should be an option to open it at the bottom beneath all the pretty graphs showing your performance/usage. TCP Connections will show you your latency to any applications that are using your network. Just look for FFXIV.exe; there are usually two entries for it. The first one will be your latency to the server.

[KaivaC]

I'll consider FFlogs toxic until it becomes opt in rather than opt out. You've no evidence they are holding you back you've just looked at website they probably don't know exists or don't want to use.

Really? Is that your only reason? Because it's opt out? By that logic, the Duty Recorder is toxic too because it requires an opt-in from all 8 party members. It's not toxic to exclude under-performing party members. From what I've seen and heard, this seems to be one of the only big MMOs where people coddle the weak links because they got kicked. I find that pretty insulting. If a person sucks, they suck? Why sugarcoat it? If people don't like being held up to that standard, then stop joining PF parties and make friends and do it with them.

[jameseoakes]

Really? Is that your only reason? Because it's opt out? By that logic, the Duty Recorder is toxic too because it requires an opt-in from all 8 party members. It's not toxic to exclude under-performing party members. From what I've seen and heard, this seems to be one of the only big MMOs where people coddle the weak links because they got kicked. I find that pretty insulting. If a person sucks, they suck? Why sugarcoat it? If people don't like being held up to that standard, then stop joining PF parties and make friends and do it with them.

To be honest I'd rather play a game where people are nice and patient with each other than one people just want to be nasty to each other. Given the language you used in you own post I think you just answered you won question on how parses would be toxic.

[KaivaC]

To be honest I'd rather play a game where people are nice and patient with each other than one people just want to be nasty to each other. Given the language you used in you own post I think you just answered you won question on how parses would be toxic.

Heh...I suppose it would be toxic, if somebody is incapable of handling criticism. There's a difference between that, y'know? Criticism, and outright harassment. But it seems that lately, too many people have started to associate criticism/advice/etc. with harassment.

What do you mean about a game where people are nice and patient? And you are playing such a game. Just because people are advocating for parsers doesn't suddenly make the niceties and patience go away in most groups. Nor it is toxic if a person who is not as good as they think they are joins another person's PF and holds the rest of the party back in a Savage raid. While current, Savage raids are not really a place to kick back and BS around unless you're with known people or the majority is fine with it. Telling somebody 'hey, you forgot to leave up heavy thrust', or 'the boss leaves the battlefield at this time, don't waste your Aetherflow for the 3 seconds you'll be able to use it' or even 'can you please use defensive cooldowns for this tank buster' are not toxic. Yet the way some people complain about it, you'd think they'd have been personally insulted.

If you want a game where it's like that 100% of the time all the time...well, I dunno what to tell you. Even Roblox has toxicity. But if you find it, good luck. When you have a farm party for Suzaku Ex, and the description says 'Healer LB3' strat, it's time to admit that there is a problem.

[SenorPatty]

To be honest I'd rather play a game where people are nice and patient with each other than one people just want to be nasty to each other. Given the language you used in you own post I think you just answered you won question on how parses would be toxic.

So let's review somethings here:

-kicking silently: toxic.
-Kicking with an explanation: toxic
-Not kicking but explaining what's going wrong without openly mentioning parsers: toxic
-Not kicking but explaining what's going wrong while mentioning parsers: toxic
-Try to be nice and patient without parsers: toxic
-Try to be nice and patient with parsers: toxic

So I guess it really doesn't matter because it's clear that at the end of the day, you're far more likely to be labeled toxic for virtually anything not because of parsers but because you were supposed to accommodate silently instead.

[Bellsong]

To be honest I'd rather play a game where people are nice and patient with each other than one people just want to be nasty to each other. Given the language you used in you own post I think you just answered you won question on how parses would be toxic.

Yeah I wish everyone was nicer and more patient, then you wouldn't have to look at FFlogs to tell if someone was up to the content, you wouldn't have to parse to know you could rely on your teammates. People would be nice enough to only join parties at the level they can perform, and would have the patience to take the time to learn and get better for parties with a higher performance required.

And in case anyone did join a party they weren't prepared for, all would be well because they would nicely bow out, thanking everyone for their patience with the wipes thy caused.

Literally everything would be better.