How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[SleepyNeko]

We're not talking parsers when we're talking about excluding players from quiet dismissals from Extremes or Savage. We're talking logs, and that's something every player has access to--something that everybody who's going to dismiss based on past recorded performance has access to. An official parser will not change people's access to the FFLogs.

Yes, but not everyone is on FFlogs, the more people that parse, the more people will unwillingly be put on FFlogs.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yes, but not everyone is on FFlogs, the more people that parse, the more people will unwillingly be put on FFlogs.

People who don't have logs or elect to hide them are typically kicked from weekly Savage parties. They can be kicked from EX Primals too, but that isn't as common. Basically, the exclude you're accusing an official parse of already happens. Not using FFlogs only makes people assume you have something to hide. Therefore, an official parse or allowing us to openly discuss parses in-game wouldn't change anything at all. Not when it comes to exclusion.

On topic: I'm not against using parser for yourself to help improve your performance, but as many others have pointed out, all the people who wishes to use parsers already use them, so what benefits do we gain by making an official one?

As stated above, PS4 players have no access to parses. Considering a sizable portion of the playerbase plays on PS4, they're entirely reliant on someone else to see their damage. Furthermore, we aren't allowed to discuss parses openly without fear of getting our accounts banned. Whether to remove players who have no business joining clear/farm parties or explain how someone might improve, we can't do anything except silently kick. The sheer amount of people who are shocked when I tell them how much more damage they could be doing is baffling. A good amount of people don't even realize they're doing anything wrong.

[jameseoakes]

People who don't have logs or elect to hide them are typically kicked from weekly Savage parties. They can be kicked from EX Primals too, but that isn't as common. Basically, the exclude you're accusing an official parse of already happens. Not using FFlogs only makes people assume you have something to hide.

And this is why FFlogs is Toxic.

[KaivaC]

And this is why FFlogs is Toxic.

Why? If you're joining somebody else's party and you don't meet their expectations (and we know there are varied expectations, like being a Lala, a SAM, etc.), they have the right to kick you out of their group. If you join their party, and you are holding them back or causing the fight to go on longer than necessary, then they have a right to kick you. That's not toxicity. You just don't meet their expectations.

[jameseoakes]

Why? If you're joining somebody else's party and you don't meet their expectations (and we know there are varied expectations, like being a Lala, a SAM, etc.), they have the right to kick you out of their group. If you join their party, and you are holding them back or causing the fight to go on longer than necessary, then they have a right to kick you. That's not toxicity. You just don't meet their expectations.

I'll consider FFlogs toxic until it becomes opt in rather than opt out. You've no evidence they are holding you back you've just looked at website they probably don't know exists or don't want to use.

[Legion88]

I'll consider FFlogs toxic until it becomes opt in rather than opt out. You've no evidence they are holding you back you've just looked at website they probably don't know exists or don't want to use.

Opt in wouldn't change anything. Exluding people would exclude people without parses nontheless.

The general question is: Why is it toxic to say someone is playing below a needed personal skill level but not toxic to sneak into content who is beyond your own skill level and experience?

[HyoMinPark]

I'll consider FFlogs toxic until it becomes opt in rather than opt out. You've no evidence they are holding you back you've just looked at website they probably don't know exists or don't want to use.

Generally, though, when someone with green/grays joins a party, their performance well matches what you've seen on the site. I do sometimes check when people join PFs I'm in, and they usually do a pretty good job of living up to what their logs show. And this is for any percentile, not just the low ones. Having a few low parses but several average or above average ones is one thing; having nothing but low is another.

I consider people who try to sneak into farm parties or weekly 2-chest parties that have no idea what they're doing in the content pretty inconsiderate. Some people may be okay with carrying them, but not everyone. And not everyone should be expected to, either.

Thanks to you I learned about Resource Monitor. Now I can use it to check when the next time I start the game.

Not a problem. To open it, I generally do it through Task Manager > Performance tab. There should be an option to open it at the bottom beneath all the pretty graphs showing your performance/usage. TCP Connections will show you your latency to any applications that are using your network. Just look for FFXIV.exe; there are usually two entries for it. The first one will be your latency to the server.

[KaivaC]

I'll consider FFlogs toxic until it becomes opt in rather than opt out. You've no evidence they are holding you back you've just looked at website they probably don't know exists or don't want to use.

Really? Is that your only reason? Because it's opt out? By that logic, the Duty Recorder is toxic too because it requires an opt-in from all 8 party members. It's not toxic to exclude under-performing party members. From what I've seen and heard, this seems to be one of the only big MMOs where people coddle the weak links because they got kicked. I find that pretty insulting. If a person sucks, they suck? Why sugarcoat it? If people don't like being held up to that standard, then stop joining PF parties and make friends and do it with them.

[jameseoakes]

Really? Is that your only reason? Because it's opt out? By that logic, the Duty Recorder is toxic too because it requires an opt-in from all 8 party members. It's not toxic to exclude under-performing party members. From what I've seen and heard, this seems to be one of the only big MMOs where people coddle the weak links because they got kicked. I find that pretty insulting. If a person sucks, they suck? Why sugarcoat it? If people don't like being held up to that standard, then stop joining PF parties and make friends and do it with them.

To be honest I'd rather play a game where people are nice and patient with each other than one people just want to be nasty to each other. Given the language you used in you own post I think you just answered you won question on how parses would be toxic.

[Legion88]

And this is why FFlogs is Toxic.

So hitting a wall, because noone knows what's going on, is better then excluding people who are not willing/able to contribute to the team or learn the fight?