How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[MoroMurasaki]

So in short, the question being asked should be how would an in-game parser NOT be toxic?

Because an in-game parser would not suddenly lift anti-harrassment rules from existence.

If SE added a parser tomorrow and I joined a party where I was underperforming and someone said "Moro you are garbage, uninstall" I would still be able to report them for harrassment, exactly the same as I can right now. How they came to their conclusion that I was garbage is irrelevant, they insulted me which is harrassment.

The misunderstanding here is that some people think if I joined a party and was underperforming and was told "You're doing X dps which is very low for your class and ilvl, look up rotation info and try again" is toxic. It isn't, its factual. That is not harrassment.

I don't understand how people can mix these things up. If you combine them into "Moro you're doing X dps which is really low you're garbage uninstall" it is still harrassment.

The key in harrassment, I feel crazy having to lay things out like this but it seems necessary, is the actual harrassment which means in my example the person calling me garbage and telling me to uninstall.

For that matter telling someone their numbers is not and never has been harrassment. When you report someone for something like that you're reporting them for SE's asinine anti-third-party rules, not harrassment. These things can happen together but they are not mutually inclusive.

Saying having an in-game parser would increase toxicity is like saying owning a toaster will increase burnt bread. You can burn bread plenty of other ways, plenty of times you or others will use your toaster and not burn bread at all but throwing the toaster out doesn't mean you will not still burn bread in the oven or while making grilled cheese or while microwaving a lean cuisine. The toaster isn't making you burn your bread.

[Ilyrian]

DPS just don't want the same accountability as tanks and healers. Understandable, but ultimately not good if you want to better your game play.

[Dualgunner]

DPS just don't want the same accountability as tanks and healers. Understandable, but ultimately not good if you want to better your game play.

Bit of a blanket statement there, don't you think? I'm a dps main who advocates for a full in game parser and combat analysis suite--that is to say, make sure the ingame parser analyzes combat logs as much as fflogs does so that people can go over everything in a pull. DPS, hps, mitigation used, positioning for mechanics, burst alignment etc.

[Legion88]

Bit of a blanket statement there, don't you think? I'm a dps main who advocates for a full in game parser and combat analysis suite--that is to say, make sure the ingame parser analyzes combat logs as much as fflogs does so that people can go over everything in a pull. DPS, hps, mitigation used, positioning for mechanics, burst alignment etc.

Don't forget the implementation of functions from xivanalysis

[MoroMurasaki]

Don't forget the implementation of functions from xivanalysis

And the rdps calculator!

[Legion88]

And the rdps calculator!

This i didn't know of, but i focused more on the selfimprovement part for parsing.

[MoroMurasaki]

This i didn't know of, but i focused more on the selfimprovement part for parsing.

It's mostly just incentive for me to not selfishly horde Embolden as I did while learning RDM.

In a way it's a kind of self improvment, it shows you the effects of dps utility abilities so you have a tangible 'oh look I helped' recap.

[Gemina]

Because an in-game parser would not suddenly lift anti-harrassment rules from existence.

If SE added a parser tomorrow and I joined a party where I was underperforming and someone said "Moro you are garbage, uninstall" I would still be able to report them for harrassment, exactly the same as I can right now. How they came to their conclusion that I was garbage is irrelevant, they insulted me which is harrassment.

The misunderstanding here is that some people think if I joined a party and was underperforming and was told "You're doing X dps which is very low for your class and ilvl, look up rotation info and try again" is toxic. It isn't, its factual. That is not harrassment.

I don't understand how people can mix these things up. If you combine them into "Moro you're doing X dps which is really low you're garbage uninstall" it is still harrassment.

The key in harrassment, I feel crazy having to lay things out like this but it seems necessary, is the actual harrassment which means in my example the person calling me garbage and telling me to uninstall.

For that matter telling someone their numbers is not and never has been harrassment. When you report someone for something like that you're reporting them for SE's asinine anti-third-party rules, not harrassment. These things can happen together but they are not mutually inclusive.

Saying having an in-game parser would increase toxicity is like saying owning a toaster will increase burnt bread. You can burn bread plenty of other ways, plenty of times you or others will use your toaster and not burn bread at all but throwing the toaster out doesn't mean you will not still burn bread in the oven or while making grilled cheese or while microwaving a lean cuisine. The toaster isn't making you burn your bread.

This is all great. But it doesn't answer my question. How would an in-game parser NOT be toxic? Believe me, I am all for fact over perception but in all honestly, you really responded to very little of what I addressed despite quoting me directly.

I don't have any confusion, nor used rDPS as a means to harass other players. After my post, do you really feel you need to explain to me what in-game harassment is? However, maybe I am misinterpreting your intent. In any case, the prevention of harassing other players is exactly what I am going for so I believe we share a common goal here.

If a parser is used in any way to correct another player, it is no longer a personal parser. You understand this, right? If you think tossing out facts exempts condescending/toxic behavior, you are also mistaken. That's not the way this game, or the world works.

[Ilyrian]

Bit of a blanket statement there, don't you think? I'm a dps main who advocates for a full in game parser and combat analysis suite--that is to say, make sure the ingame parser analyzes combat logs as much as fflogs does so that people can go over everything in a pull. DPS, hps, mitigation used, positioning for mechanics, burst alignment etc.

DPS who are against integrating a parser. Thought that was clear from the post.

[MoroMurasaki]

This is all great. But it doesn't answer my question. How would an in-game parser NOT be toxic? Believe me, I am all for fact over perception but in all honestly, you really responded to very little of what I addressed despite quoting me directly.

I don't have any confusion, nor used rDPS as a means to harass other players. After my post, do you really feel you need to explain to me what in-game harassment is? However, maybe I am misinterpreting your intent. In any case, the prevention of harassing other players is exactly what I am going for so I believe we share a common goal here.

If a parser is used in any way to correct another player, it is no longer a personal parser. You understand this, right? If you think tossing out facts exempts condescending/toxic behavior, you are also mistaken. That's not the way this game, or the world works.

I was responding to your rephrased question about how an in-game parser could not be toxic. The tl;dr is essentially that a tool can't be toxic and a tool that gives numbers is not pumping out toxicity. There is absolutely nothing toxic about parsing or looking at data of any kind, be it for yourself or others.

You seem to imply that an in-game parser would increase toxicity when you mention not wanting to 'add to their workloads' by implementing an in-game parser while referencing SE's investigation of harrassment complaints. Sorry I'm not multi-quoting, I'm on my phone and lazy.

This mentality that in in game parser would add to the workload of SE's harrassment investigation team in conjunction with your closing statement asking how a parser would not be toxic leads me to believe you fundamentally misunderstand what toxicity or harrassment are which is why the majority of my post is spent explaining them.

I kind of feel like you didn't read my post, not that you're under any obligation to I suppose but you did decide to respond to it. I never implied that 'tossing out facts' would exempt someone from their behavior being deemed toxic but as long as they are only tossing out facts and not being insulting with them then no they are not harassing anyone.