How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[RuleofThree]

Neither of you were really toxic IMO, but if I had to stretch my personal definition I'd argue you were worse (if I am reading it right). You deliberately dragged the fight out with the intent to antagonize another player who had asked you to just reset. Him indicating that you have weak gear/no materia and not having any clears (which I assume is him looking you up on FFLogs) is not toxic, if anything it appears to be an objective factual statement regardless of its negative connotation.

You then assume this player is running ACT based on some arbitrary metric that you yourself developed with no supporting evidence, and then used that to broadly paint an entire subset of players who use the tool successfully and publicly with no issue as toxic.

Now mind you - I'd have supported you trying to solo it, unless it was at a very high HP %, which you indicated it was not.

You are reading it right, but it's without context. Him telling me I have weak gear, no materia, and no clears was happing during my attempt to salvage the fight. His insinuations incited my threat to 'troll' the last thousand hp. That was never, nor ever would be my intentions. Soloing the last 5% of a boss, in my eyes, would be a thrill that would take a while for me to come down on...it so rarely happens...I wouldn't willingly mess that chance up for an asshat. When you are angered, you tend not to think clearly. I don't condone my response with regards to my first response, regret it even...but what's done is done.

And you made the very same assumption yourself. I mean, I guess it could stand the reason that he utilizes FFlogs for information, but doesn't actually have the parser...but that's a bit far fetched isn't it? You assumed he made the last comment based on looking at the FFlogs website, much like my assumption that he is using ACT himself...we will never truly know...but a bit of the pot calling the kettle black there.

And you are right, the definition of toxic is subjective. Personally? I'm not really a fan of having someone throw my obvious flaws in the face of everyone present. Everyone has the examine function, everyone can see that I don't spec out dark night, everyone knows I am iLevel 360 gear. Why bring it up, if but to be an asshat? I'm not a fan of being called 'utter garbage' and a 'waste of time' just because a website, of which I have opted out on showing information for, doesn't reveal information about me.

Regardless, he is right, I don't have a clear in the new savage. i took a haitus from this game since 4.1, and came back a week before 4.4 hit. I don't have access to 370 to get in to savage, and won't for at least a few months with SE's ridiculous 450 a week cap. I don't have the money to drop to get in to savage so quickly. But again, our definition of 'toxic' is different. Even if I did have a clear on savage, and did opt in for my character to show on FFlogs...it would be as white mage, which would be completely irrelavent information to my undergeared dark knight. If anything it would show him why I have an undergeared dark knight....I focus on white mage.

[KaivaC]

How many times must we go over this.

A parser is useless fflogs is what makes parsers useful. Unless SE makes an fflogs like system it will be useless.

Unless you are trying to speed run any piece of content fllogs and parsers are useless. nothing in this game requires you to optimize your dps down to a gcd This game is not balanced like that. so having a parser and fflogs like program become official just invites a bunch of toxic issue for the very small positive of helping everyone speedrun if they wish.

A 4 digit number at the end of a fight tells you nothing useful not how to improve it or even how you got it.

Not entirely true. There is an analysis website that was built that I use quite a bit, and I have actually seen a marked improvement over my play over the weekend, based on the logs that I analyzed there. So parsers would have a use - if we were allowed to, say, save it to our lodestone and paste the data in a similar analysis site, I imagine that the benefits would be great. If players had the desire, and they were able to get details like this based on a run, and got feedback on what areas they could improve in specifically, then I don't see why it would be a huge issue. Players like me don't like the idea of being carried. We want to be able to pull our own weight without relying on our party members to pick up our slack. You'd be surprised at how many people have failed the DPS checks in O9N and O11N.

To be completely fair, even if the OP had made a simple request to have parsers for ps4 without asking if it would be toxic, it would've devolved into this.

I mean, there's already one of the usual suspects riding the anti-raiders agenda train in this thread and we're already seeing the inevitable rise of the slugfest in small doses so yeah...

Which is why I suggest that we just ignore those riding that train - our responding to them is only going to push this thread even further into circles and snipes on both sides. Let them say what they want - I do not intend to engage those select individuals in yet another debate that is ultimately pointless and will derail the thread.

[SenorPatty]

@Kaiva
Aye I agree

Btw, I do hope SE at the very least takes a small step and allow something like ACT but for oneself. For those sayinh SSS already exist, then why not just convert the whole place into an arena you can directly teleport to and upgrade the dummies into a full dummy training room. Allow the reset of cds, allow users to tinker with dummy settings like debuffs and buffs, level, rate of common telegraphed attacks, etc. I could go on and on but the starting kit is right there in the game: the battle log. Spruce and clean that up and ps4 users can finally dig deeper on what they can improve on.

[thegreatonemal]

Not entirely true. There is an analysis website that was built that I use quite a bit, and I have actually seen a marked improvement over my play over the weekend, based on the logs that I analyzed there. So parsers would have a use - if we were allowed to, say, save it to our lodestone and paste the data in a similar analysis site, I imagine that the benefits would be great. If players had the desire, and they were able to get details like this based on a run, and got feedback on what areas they could improve in specifically, then I don't see why it would be a huge issue. Players like me don't like the idea of being carried. We want to be able to pull our own weight without relying on our party members to pick up our slack. You'd be surprised at how many people have failed the DPS checks in O9N and O11N.

The larger point was unless you rotation was flawed in someway the improvements don't really mean anything other than self satisfaction. That's not worth the damage it will cause to the community at large. Most people will not be using it properly like you and others do. they will be looking at that 4 digit number and making judgments about other players based on it with no context.

[NessaWyvern]

improvements don't really mean anything other than self satisfaction. That's not worth the damage it will cause to the community at large.

I don't think an official parser would cause that much damage at all. There's already player created parsers for PC users, they've been around since ARR, there's already numbers posted at the end of FLs and feast, and WoW has most people using parsers, and I could count the times someone has mentioned them in-game on one hand, let alone abused someone for it. And if you do get abused for it, there's still the report function, blacklist, and you can still leave the party.

And with an official self-only parser, people won't really know what other people's numbers are anyway.
Also improvements means passing dps checks, getting clears, and why else do people play games, other than self-satisfaction?

[Maeka]

I don't think an official parser would cause that much damage at all. There's already player created parsers for PC users, they've been around since ARR, there's already numbers posted at the end of FLs and feast, and WoW has most people using parsers, and I could count the times someone has mentioned them in-game on one hand, let alone abused someone for it. And if you do get abused for it, there's still the report function, blacklist, and you can still leave the party.

And with an official self-only parser, people won't really know what other people's numbers are anyway.
Also improvements means passing dps checks, getting clears, and why else do people play games, other than self-satisfaction?

Yeah, but FFLogs is a third party website and they don't record casual stuff like Roulettes and such, because nobody cares. However, if you could parse people in-game without the website, then I bet people could, and would, use the parsing tool to be jerks in content where you don't need parses, IE, leveling roulette etc.

[KaivaC]

The larger point was unless you rotation was flawed in someway the improvements don't really mean anything other than self satisfaction. That's not worth the damage it will cause to the community at large. Most people will not be using it properly like you and others do. they will be looking at that 4 digit number and making judgments about other players based on it with no context.

...except in my original post, I put something of an emphasis on personal. As in, only you see your own numbers. How can you judge others if you can't even see their numbers? If you recall, I'm specifically speaking about having one that is officially accessible for us PS4 users.

[NessaWyvern]

However, if you could parse people in-game without the website, then I bet people could, and would, use the parsing tool to be jerks in content where you don't need parses, IE, leveling roulette etc.

That's why I mentioned "self-only parser". So you only see your own numbers. Atm you get jerks who blame others for bad dps when they're not using a parser anyway (when they themselves have bad dps) , so things won't change much. In fact some delusional jerks might have their own eyes opened if they could see their own dps. And like I said, there's still the report and blacklist function.

[thegreatonemal]

Waste of resources this game has no real need of them.

[Maeka]

That's why I mentioned "self-only parser". So you only see your own numbers. Atm you get jerks who blame others for bad dps when they're not using a parser anyway (when they themselves have bad dps) , so things won't change much. In fact some delusional jerks might have their own eyes opened if they could see their own dps. And like I said, there's still the report and blacklist function.

Yeah I've said earlier in the thread, I'm fine with personal private only parsers. I'd like to be able to see how my DPS is, but I don't want anybody else seeing my numbers, lol.