How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[KaldeaSahaline]

What excluding people based on a few results in a third party website that doesn't even need you to sign up to it, your all just proving to me the worst of what I think of this games raiding player base.

Ironically enough - comments like this are exactly why pro-parser players think people like you are toxic.

There were strategy guides for FF7 as well.

I actually have that one!

So the question is: How can this be a learning tool, when there seems to be nothing to compare the evidence with? Say for example, we get an official parsing tool...that's neat, but how is one going to know they are doing good or bad?

A parser isn't a turn on and instantly improve endeavor. It's something you look at and compare decisions you've made over time.

If you see an outlier (like one time I had a WHM who was top DPS in a dungeon) you look into it. In this situation the WHM wasn't the outlier, he was just a very strong player. The outliers were my 2 DPS who sustained near auto attack levels of output. The healer and I (PLD) carried them, and it was offensive to us that we had to. Between the 2 of us we sustained nearly 60% of the total groups damage. That means 2 DPS only carried 40% of the total damage done.

You go into a 24 man and see another DRG and he's doing double your damage. You can say oh it's just gear, but when you look he's only 5 ilvl higher. Then you say, why did he do so much, then look at his casts compare to yours. Then look at his sequence if you're interested, etc.

To be fair you can easily catch a lot of stuff like that just from watching the players and your ui.

This isn't as easy as you say, especially from a melee or a progression perspective. I have to have animations turned off for party members. I can't see a damn thing up there. I don't care about seeing a BLM's Enochian so that's disabled too. I only care about the things I need to care about. I don't know the first thing about a MCH, so his animations aren't going to mean a damn thing to me. However, his 1600 DPS in 01S without dying? That means he's getting kicked.

Also if you actually have the time to watch other players it's because you're not putting max effort in or you're just a considerably better player than I.

Not sure why you're saying it's difficult to say what went wrong when you said the paladin did shield lob spam. Shield lob has a pretty distinctive animation.

As someone who was actually there live for the PLD shield spam. The only reason I actually noticed (and I'm a fairly accomplished PLD main mind you) was because aggro was beyond errant. I had to literally stop DPSing and look at what the tank was doing to see it.

So while an official parcer in the game would undoubtably be a good 'learning tool.' It would be only for current content. The moment it becomes outdated content, no one cares anymore. While that may be useful for the modern raider, or for someone that is level 70 looking to get in to raiding...it's not useful at all for the person currently leveling. He gets to look at his dps in Say...Void Ark, and just assume it is good at this point in time, or go with what appearantly is being suggested, and not care until it is relevant...at level 70.

Seems to me if you want to advocate using a parser as an official learning tool...it should be useful for all levels not just current savage or extremes. Granted, I'm sure only the elitest of the elite care what dps output is at level 45, but I'd say by Alexander Savage - and the iLevel there about - having benchmarks that say 'alright, in around this iLevel area, 'x' job should be pushing around 3,000dps.' This way you are knowing whether or not the best you can be at that iLevel rather than just hoping you are doing it right, and checking when you are 70.

A parser is useful at all levels. The information gleaned from it isn't as useful, but you can still test things with it, and weigh party contributions. For instance, I learned by not using flash leveling up my PLD I increased my average DPS across an entire dungeon by ~20%.

It could very well be that the person in their current gear is pushing the best dps that iLevel offers to them...and that the person is calling them a bad, because they are expecting iLevel 'x' dps, from a person that is wearing iLevel 'y' gear. I know my numbers as well, but I have to assume that the person calling me bad, is right, because even though I can see my own numbers, I have no idea if those are good numbers for my iLevel...absolutely none, because there is no benchmark to compare it too. So now...I get to sit here and wonder...am I missing something? Am I really bad? Or am I doing the best I literally can do, for the gear that I have? And he is comparing me to some unrealistic number that I can't hope to hit yet?

The fact that you are asking those questions is a good thing. That phenomenon is what gets players doing research and getting better. I've seen it on these forums and I've seen it in game countless times. Once the data is in front of them, it really opens their eyes. It's easy to say to someone you're garbage blah blah bad uninstall, but without that player seeing it live the impact is lessened.

I am in no way saying "No parsers cause parser encite trolling." That's not true, I am saying "Parsing will give trolls more fuel." They will troll with or without a parser...this is an agreed upon fact.

And this is where we must correct you. Parsing will not give trolls MORE fuel. It will change their CURRENT fuel.

Once again, people advocating the desire for an official parser are skirting what I am asking: Where are the benchmarks?

I covered this above. Benchmarks can only be gleaned by experience and time. If you're expecting an instant benchmark day 1, you'll be disappointed. It doesn't exist.

*takes deep breaths*

No sir. No you can not.

I can look at buff windows. I can look at downtime on cooldowns. I can look at their used rotation. I can see all that wonderful and juicy detail....

But - and this is the crux of the matter here - the number displayed by the dark knight who is doing O10S on savage? It is no help to a scrub teir dark knight just trying to do his best in mendacity gear. Comparing my i360 self to i380 gods is like bragging about bench pressing 120lbs to a professional bodybuilder.

It is if you care to look, but if you're trying to compare dungeons to raids then yes that's a silly endeavor. You can glean basic rotational info and optimizations, but they're 2 entirely different content forms with entirely different circumstances and flows.

This is where a lot of parser toxicity begins. Many people just glance at the parser and use the numbers presented as if they're the only defining factor of a person's performance. Often they don't look at ilvl or if the gear doesn't have ideal stat weights. Being the lowest dps doesn't mean you're the worst player. You could even be the best player if the numbers you're producing for the gear you have are amazing.

The people you claim talking about low dps and not taking things into account are players who aren't using an abacus and are relying on feels. As someone with an abacus I've seen countless times where some uneducated player makes a claim about DPS, when they're CLEARLY and UNMISTAKABLY wrong. I always look at gear when I investigate an outlier.

The main context for performance people often use is their own. They judge other people versus their own performance. This is flawed if you don't take gear into consideration. Someone might look bad compared to you but if they're 15 ilvls lower...then no wonder?

15 ilvls would be immediately noticeable by sheer HP difference. 15 ilvls is a lot.