How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[KaivaC]

They would have to hire more people to deal with all the nonsense from people being jerks about parsers. Bear in mind that I am very much for personal parsers. I really don't see the harm in letting people know where they stand as long as that information can't immediately be turned on people. Sometimes you get to carry really bad players and that is life in an MMO. But it seems really unfair that console players have no way to gauge their performance without someone else parsing them.

I also think, in addition to personal parses, that the game should give a basic rating to performance, just because contextless numbers are kinda meaningless. just a bad/decent/good rating, though they would have to be really careful with how they word the hey you suck message.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Musosai in the initial Samurai quest comment on the skills that you were using in your fight against him? Couldn't something like that be implemented in-game with an official parser similar to the screen after every PvP match?

I don't think they would need to hire many more - people would just need to actually report harassment (I should probably take that advice too, but I generally don't like stirring up trouble for any reason in case of backlash).

Actually, now that I think about it, there is a site that analyzes a log you've submitted and it gives you tips on areas that you can improve in, and areas that you're generally doing pretty well in. Would it really be that hard to implement something like this in game? More so than fflogs, this other site that I've been using seems like a goldmine for self-improvement.

[valho]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Musosai in the initial Samurai quest comment on the skills that you were using in your fight against him? Couldn't something like that be implemented in-game with an official parser similar to the screen after every PvP match?

I don't think they would need to hire many more - people would just need to actually report harassment (I should probably take that advice too, but I generally don't like stirring up trouble for any reason in case of backlash).

Actually, now that I think about it, there is a site that analyzes a log you've submitted and it gives you tips on areas that you can improve in, and areas that you're generally doing pretty well in. Would it really be that hard to implement something like this in game? More so than fflogs, this other site that I've been using seems like a goldmine for self-improvement.

The information is already ingame so shouldn't be hard, the analysis site is also a good basic guide to use for improvement since it will analyse your uptime, weaving etc. I actually improve on my SAM using that site and I usually gets over 90% uptime now. If 3rd party can do it, I don't see why SE can't.

@Arkdra Simply giving a bad/good/great rating is pretty useless since it doesn't tells you in detail what you can do to improve. It needs to have information that can be analyse, that you can drill down to see where you can improve.

[Fyce]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Musosai in the initial Samurai quest comment on the skills that you were using in your fight against him? Couldn't something like that be implemented in-game with an official parser similar to the screen after every PvP match?

That's why I suggested it. But you can't put it into content where people stay in the same group (mostly Extremes and Savages) if you want to avoid any possible way of bringing the "toxicity" everyone seems to be scared about. If you give that data to players that are staying in the same group, that's where the "toxicity" can come in, and when the blame can start to be thrown around. That's also why you don't want to display that table after a wipe, but only after the content is cleared.

In short, you can only display that table after a clear on a content that wasn't intended to be repeated multiple times by the same group.
So, the only way I can see it working, is after a solo queue in DF/RF.

[Fiorinol]

One thing I've learned from playing MOBAs for so many years, is that often the reason a game is toxic, is because of the game itself rather than the players.

In the case of FFXIV, a lot of the higher up encounters will fail you if other players aren't up to par. This is why tools like the parser exist to begin with. It exists to measure your own performance, as well as see if anyone in your party is straggling. I suppose another use that Square probably wouldn't want in their game are the leaderboards. The leaderboards are what enforces the meta, because players, especially in North America, want to have the highest numbers they can get on the 3rd party website to feel good about their play.

I don't know what game you're all playing, but toxicity is all over the game. Go over to Party Finder for the new raid tier, it's full of players who disrespect each other, because the content is designed in such a way that if one player screws up, you very much wipe or are unable to complete the encounter.

[Jandor]

How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

So long as it's private and for just your character it wouldn't be, in fact it would probably serve to improve the general populations play quite significantly. As a tank or healer it's very obvious how well you're doing at your primary function, as a damage dealer... not so much.

Edit: although maybe Shurrikhan has a point about personal parsers and hiding the results from the rest of the party. /thinking.

[Shurrikhan]

So long as it's private and for just your character it wouldn't be, in fact it would probably serve to improve the general populations play quite significantly. As a tank or healer it's very obvious how well you're doing at your primary function, as a damage dealer... not so much.

Edit: although maybe Shurrikhan has a point about personal parsers and hiding the results from the rest of the party. /thinking.

Again, I think any well-representative information added would be an improvement. I just feel like the less you force conflicts that needn't occur (e.g. "screenshots links to Discord page within the next 10 seconds, or I start kicking") just to veil conflicts that probably should be addressed early on (e.g. "You really should know how to handle basic mechanics and perform your rotation despite mild movement before even attempting this fight..."), the more toxicity you actually see and--more importantly--feel among party interactions and the perceived playerbase as a whole.

[Ryaz]

There are toxic people in the community, I'm afraid, and I don't think SE wants to really allocate the resources to deal with another source of it. For example, I was in Suzaku Ex the other day and had ONE bad fight because I was a bit distracted. Despite the fact that I cleared her three times just before that with no issues, the healer started to rag on me like I was a noob who had no clue what I was doing (and ignored others who also died, some to the simplest mechanics). Some people are just jerks.

An official parser would be fine IF it was just for you to use as a means to improve yourself. Many would just use it as another tool to exclude people. Not that it matters much anyway because SE can't really stop people from using third party parsers.

[Legion88]

The problem with "Toxicity(TM)" is, its always and everywhere, not always open but more hidden and private.
Some people are jerks, but most toxic people just don't know how to handle their toxicity in a harmless way or are to emotional for that.

If people would learn to calm down and vent their toxicity into a side channel like to friends, diary, this thread or something of that kind instad of open ranting in a duty emotianally fired up, the open toxicity would be far less.

The next step would be that everyone starts to take responsibility for their actions.
If i see the content I entered is to hard for me, I excuse me and leave, and this schould be done by who people who come to know that they entered content to hard for them.
Then they can train to get better or hope for unsync.

Open ranting, hate speach and swear words are as toxic as sneaking into inappropiate content.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Just adding my 2c as there are a ton of different perspectives here.

My new static just cleared O9S and the parses were finally published. Of my group, 2 DPS landed in the 97perc while I landed in the gray for my job. Now, I haven't received any toxic behavior for my low parse (as of yet anyway) but now I have an uneasy anxiety to not be the dead weight of the group even though we have no issues with enrage. This is just a situation that, depending on the people in the group, can go very toxic pretty quickly and boy do I not enjoy the silent pressure.

Of course, I'm taking the proactive approach and finding out where I can improve before it potentially becomes a bigger issue. But my group so far seems pretty chill so I'm just gonna be open about it and see what they have to offer my statistically lower performance. A question has to be asked, do parses matter when enrage isn't an issue? How low does someone have to be to raise a concern? (and no, I wasn't doing less than the tanks, as that would be my personal line I draw).

[Nixxe]

Developing an official parser when you can just use FFLogs, which is superior to anything SE would ever implement, is a silly waste of time. The current setup is fine, as their willingness to turn a blind eye to parsing so long as you don't harass people with it means we can essentially have our cake and eat it too: people can parse, but can't use it to harass others.