How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[supaiku]

There is a simple solution: make the parser so all you can see are your own numbers. If you don't wan't to use it, just turn it off. Problem solved.
I play on PS4 and have no way of seeing how I am performing. Sure I can check Logs if my static members upload the fight once we are done, but that isn't optimal. I want to see my numbers while playing to get a better view of where I loose dps. Sure I can analyze the logs later, but that is also kind of inconvenient. And if the PC gamers can see their numbers, I as a PS4 player want the option to see mine too. Thank you.

[ElHeggunte]

A good portion of this playerbase believes that expecting basic effort is synonymous with being an elitist and you ask why they think a parser would be toxic.

PS: Personal parsers are borderline worthless for giving you meaningful information, especially on the fly in a group setting where parsers have the most use.

[Marxam]

How would something like that even lead to toxicity? I can't wrap my head how a personal tool that only you would see (unless you decide to do something like share it publicly) would equate to an increase in toxicity.

You just answered your own question. I'm on PS4 also and I gauge player skill based on mechanic execution and relative ease of combat flow. A dead dps will always do less dps than a decent dps who didn't die the whole fight. Anyone can smack a boss that is just standing around but not everyone can do that while dodging aoes, doing mechanics and still getting in your positional's.

[KaivaC]

You just answered your own question. I'm on PS4 also and I gauge player skill based on mechanic execution and relative ease of combat flow. A dead dps will always do less dps than a decent dps who didn't die the whole fight. Anyone can smack a boss that is just standing around but not everyone can do that while dodging aoes, doing mechanics and still getting in your positional's.

Indeed. I can do that - but even on my Areya character, I had found that I am hurting my group because either I'm not executing my rotation right, or I'm missing positionals, or I'm missing important casts. And I get that not everyone wants to improve. That's fine and dandy.

But I do. And I know others who can't use parsers would love to use a tool like this on consoles to improve. It drives me mad whenever I'm logged in, and I have no way of knowing if I'm hurting my group or not, just based on my DPS. I don't want to simply be decent...most players that I have seen in my 1+ year in FFXIV are decent, just by what I've seen in-game. I want to be good. Most folks on the forums are probably aware that I am driven by this obsession. And this is in a public discussion board. Who knows how many people who don't venture to the forums have similar sentiments. And again, I wish for it to be completely optional, and for it to only parse what you've done.

[valho]

You just answered your own question. I'm on PS4 also and I gauge player skill based on mechanic execution and relative ease of combat flow. A dead dps will always do less dps than a decent dps who didn't die the whole fight. Anyone can smack a boss that is just standing around but not everyone can do that while dodging aoes, doing mechanics and still getting in your positional's.

This isn't exactly correct, during my Suzaku Ex farm this week I have seen instances where I am dead once or twice in the fight and still the top DPS in the fight. Now without a parser and if we wipe the blame would probably falls on me since I died but the truth is it's not my fault. If I pull 6k dps with death and another did 3k without dead, who fault is it if we wipe? Am I suppose to not die and pull 7k DPS to carry him? I don't expect people to have savage tier skill in extreme but I do expect them to pull their own weight. Doing 3k dps with ilvl 370+ is not acceptable at all but without an official parser they wouldn't know they are the problem and the rest of the party wouldn't know either, some else will become the scape goat for the wipe instead. Suzaku Ex is not the only instance I have seen this, even in Sigma savage I have seen this happens. A private parser that can be share if the players want to wouldn't be that bad. At least if someone call you out when you were doing fine you have something to back it up.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Because the skill gap is too big. Even yoshi-p is aware of this as I heard something on the lines of "will think about it once the skill gap is less" A LOT of people simply do not know how to play, and when you try to advice them, they lash out, so can you picture what the situation will be when people can actually see it? Most people do not know how to see rotation issues without parsers. I am all for it, but i feel the general player base isn't. Given this is a forum for a game, most people that know how to play will be here, so this thread is more on the lines of preaching to the choir.

Unfortunately, the skill gap will never lessen until they official allow parsing, be it ACT itself or develop their own. They keep spending resources on silly workarounds which will never accomplish anything. Speaking from my own experienced, I learned to improve because I kept seeing Dragoon pulling numbers much higher than my own. It made me curious, thus I looked up their rotations and what they were doing. That couldn't have happened with a parse. What Yoshida's chasing is a fools goal. A good number of people have no idea they're doing something wrong because they game never tells you otherwise. You have no frame of reference short of "did the boss die or not."

[Dzian]

Unfortunately, the skill gap will never lessen until they official allow parsing, be it ACT itself or develop their own. They keep spending resources on silly workarounds which will never accomplish anything. Speaking from my own experienced, I learned to improve because I kept seeing Dragoon pulling numbers much higher than my own. It made me curious, thus I looked up their rotations and what they were doing. That couldn't have happened with a parse. What Yoshida's chasing is a fools goal. A good number of people have no idea they're doing something wrong because they game never tells you otherwise. You have no frame of reference short of "did the boss die or not."

The skill gap will never lessen because the devs go about it the wrong way... too afraid to push the bottom players to improve what the devs do is try and drag the top players down closer to them..

content itself also doesnt ask or even incentivise players to improve... you want that shiny mount but the fights a bit tricky.... don't waste time trying to up your game. we'll bring the content down to you... and hand you your shiny mount on a silver platter.

doesn't matter how many tools the devs added unless they changed the content to actually promote player growth and had better rewards to incentivise. its a dud. but again SE wont ever do that instead they'll just keep trying to drag the top players down andfailing miserably to close the gap

[RuleofThree]

The skill gap will never lessen because the devs go about it the wrong way... too afraid to push the bottom players to improve what the devs do is try and drag the top players down closer to them..

content itself also doesnt ask or even incentivise players to improve... you want that shiny mount but the fights a bit tricky.... don't waste time trying to up your game. we'll bring the content down to you... and hand you your shiny mount on a silver platter.

doesn't matter how many tools the devs added unless they changed the content to actually promote player growth and had better rewards to incentivise. its a dud. but again SE wont ever do that instead they'll just keep trying to drag the top players down andfailing miserably to close the gap

I don't know. I'm not sure 99 totems is 'handing a mount on a silver platter.' Shinryu EX for example, on my server you can't even find a farm party for that, let alone a successful one. You aren't getting 99 totems for free, not by a long shot. And getting carried is harder than actually learning the fight. If you are under par, you are going to get bullied and eventually kicked from the group. Even if you do know the fight, and made a few honest mistakes, or just woke up and aren't 100% yet, or just need to shake the rust off, you are going to get chastised or kicked for 'not knowing the fight' or just 'being bad.

Am I arguing the notion that SE isn't pushing lower tier players to up their game a bit? No. I agree with you in some sense, I savage when I can (pugging is hard), so I'd like to consider myself a cut above the rest, had every job half covered in Delta savage gear last patch. Still, to say that they are just 'handing out mounts on a silver platter.' Hmmm...a bit extreme there. I wish, because, like I said, finding farms for Shinryu is hell incarnate.

[Hamada]

Unfortunately, the skill gap will never lessen until they official allow parsing, be it ACT itself or develop their own. They keep spending resources on silly workarounds which will never accomplish anything. Speaking from my own experienced, I learned to improve because I kept seeing Dragoon pulling numbers much higher than my own. It made me curious, thus I looked up their rotations and what they were doing. That couldn't have happened with a parse. What Yoshida's chasing is a fools goal. A good number of people have no idea they're doing something wrong because they game never tells you otherwise. You have no frame of reference short of "did the boss die or not."

Yeah that is a good point. Wasnt those shoe in meters supposed to lessen the gap? along with the changes for brd and mch, and i think to some extent, the new play styles to those 2 jobs, more so MCH, only widened the skill gap?

In the end of the day, getting to lv 50,60, 70, shouldn't be a faceroll, being able to fully carry someone doing sub 200 DPS (yes someone shown me proof of some brd during HW doing 200-800 dps, to be fair i think it was a combo of ilevel bypassing and not knowing what to do, they had like a ilevel 140 weapon or something)

Yoshi seems not to understand that people will only put the minimum effort required. I am sure you seen before something on the lines of "this is not savage who cares" when trying to offer help with rotations or mechanics.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

have you ever played WoW? unless you want the FF14 community to turn toxic the last thing this game needs is a dps meter

WoW is not the same game as FFXIV nor does it attract the same players. You also have to consider WoW boasters several million players, thus you're going to see the toxic far more often than in FFXIV. A perfect example of this is when blame say things like "Gilgamesh is full of assholes." Well, yeah, because it once had almost double the population of every other server excluding Balmung and a few others. Of course you're going to see more jerks from Gilgamesh. There's simply more people.

Putting that all aside, you don't think people already toxic by nature act this way regardless? The only difference is you'll be kicked without any reason given or the party abruptly disbands.

You just answered your own question. I'm on PS4 also and I gauge player skill based on mechanic execution and relative ease of combat flow. A dead dps will always do less dps than a decent dps who didn't die the whole fight. Anyone can smack a boss that is just standing around but not everyone can do that while dodging aoes, doing mechanics and still getting in your positional's.

This is decidedly untrue. In fact, I was in a Tsukiyomi EX party a few months ago where I died early into the moon phase. Despite being dead of the floor for at least thirty seconds, I still remained a 1,000 DPS above the Samurai, who was getting out-dps'd by a Bard by nearly 1,500. When the Bard made a remark, the Samurai called her shit and got into a row with me. All the while oblivious we were both leagues ahead of him DPS wise. The irony is for the talks of parse toxicity, the people using a parse were the ones being bullied by someone who thought they were hot shit and clearly not using one themselves.

You can't always base player skill on mechanics. A Warrior can do everything right mechanically but give up massive amounts of DPS if they don't properly time their Inner Release usage. A Monk blowing Tornado Kick constantly without knowing the proper rotation will loss thousands of DPS yet be entirely unaware.