How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Selova]

Fairly certain the rotations were hypothesized before launch, and then tested afterwards to see if the hypothetical opener/rotation was actually the best to do. Parsers had everything to do with that.

Honestly, I'd give up trying to reason with him. I'm still convinced he's just a dedicated troll spouting such hilarious gems such as:"Using myself as an example I'm a ps4 player and when i learn a fight i'm pretty much flawless when it comes to doing the mechanics" and "The point is that there is no point to parsing it means nothing unless you are speed running". He, as well as others have clearly displayed their lack of knowledge in understanding how parsers assist in coming up with optimal rotations. If they seriously want to believe that theory crafters just stare at the battle log and potency tool tips all day, more power to them. Trying to debate someone who lives and apparently "get's off" in their own bubble of ignorance is literally a waste of time.

[Vahlnir]

Honestly, I'd give up trying to reason with him. I'm still convinced he's just a dedicated troll spouting such hilarious gems such as:"Using myself as an example I'm a ps4 player and when i learn a fight i'm pretty much flawless when it comes to doing the mechanics" and "The point is that there is no point to parsing it means nothing unless you are speed running". He, as well as others have clearly displayed their lack of knowledge in understanding how parsers assist in coming up with optimal rotations. If they seriously want to believe that theory crafters just stare at the battle log and potency tool tips all day, more power to them. Trying to debate someone who lives and apparently "get's off" in their own bubble of ignorance is literally a waste of time.

I personally don't doubt its uses, and they are many. Most of them very helpful. I just don't think they should make an official parser that can be viewed group/raid wide is all. It's like giving a 5 year old the keys to a fighter jet for too many people. In a perfect world people would use them right and for the right reasons. This is not a perfect world.

[KaivaC]

I personally don't doubt its uses, and they are many. Most of them very helpful. I just don't think they should make an official parser that can be viewed group/raid wide is all. It's like giving a 5 year old the keys to a fighter jet for too many people. In a perfect world people would use them right and for the right reasons. This is not a perfect world.

Here's a crazy thought: taking the idea of the Duty Recorder, what if the devs implemented it in the High-End Raid Finder? Since PFs are the preferred spots for raiding/Ex anyways, what if the rarely used Raid Finder gave that option that you could click on to match with similar players using an official parse? That way it'll only be used in the content where it's most useful, and possibly breath a little bit of life into the mostly-not-used Raid Finder for at least a little while?

[Speaks]

Here's a crazy thought: taking the idea of the Duty Recorder, what if the devs implemented it in the High-End Raid Finder? Since PFs are the preferred spots for raiding/Ex anyways, what if the rarely used Raid Finder gave that option that you could click on to match with similar players using an official parse? That way it'll only be used in the content where it's most useful, and possibly breath a little bit of life into the mostly-not-used Raid Finder for at least a little while?

While I personally love the idea can you imagine the uproar of all the gray parses being stuck together only to continuously hit enrage at 60%+?

SE wants us to carry bads, but then they do not give us enough wiggle room on enrage to truly carry bads. Early in a tier it only takes two bads in an EX before you are basically just slamming your head against enrage.

[Aerlana]

I'd argue WoW LFR is more casual friendly than FFXIV.

LFR vs whole FFXIV = yes. LFR is there to allow people getting in the raid (and see the story) with the DF system, else, the raids (from normal to mythic) is out of DF, you have to group with party finder/friends, and go to the entry. The DF is a tool that help a lot casual player to enjoy content.

But LFR wow is close to raid24 in FF. 25people vs 24, most boss are quite easy strategy (even ozma was...) And in both, there is kick not when people are leeching, but when there are leecher AND the boss makes wipe. on both game there is no real matter when you LFR/raid24 to carry some other. . . Even with parser showing abyssaly low damages or even AFK people (when 90% of damages is from autoattack... ... ).



This is the reason i laugh when i read "wow is toxic due to parsers". I find both comunity really close in many point.

Toxicity is ALSO from people with "low" gameplay. People who dont want to be pointed due to their DPS. When some are low damages, if we cant tell it to them, there is less chance they will try to improve in next try. Then, f we cant kick them, there is 2 solution, or carry them, or disband. People said the chat in feast as example of toxicity worst than the toxicity previously there. Before? chat, and flaming yes. But it is part of comunication, people can sometime stop flaming, and coordinate their efforts. Now? no more speaking. Flaming didnt disapear, not shown in chat log, but i am not sure the guy is not raging behind his screen. AND he cant even try to comunicate to get a better teamplay.

Each one of us can choose what is the best... i prefer comunicate, getting insulte, than no communication. I prefer being said i have bad DPS, seeing it myself with my own tool (and admit or deny) than just being ignorant of the state...

math, the damage formula is known and potency values are given hell. for this expansion your rotation was already figured out before you logged into stormblood for the first time parsers have nothing to do with it.

Is it useless to know stats weight?
How do you know the efficiency of 1 point in secundary stats without parser?

theory are a thing, then need to try the theory. Then, during a fight, you have sometime to think if it is a good idea to delay a little this or this cooldown. (and no mathematics can decide it). To get the "bis" stuff you have to know stats weight, to know stat weight ,you have to know the effect of each point. Mathematic cant says it without some tool to measure.


During ARR, we had thunderIII, longest dot, longest cast. Thunder, the lowest in time and cast, and thunder II in the middle between both. mathematics made close thunder and thunder II. tries of cycle (so need parse to see difference) said it was better to use thunderII even if the cast is over a GCD.

*snip*

SE already considers "parser" when creating a fight.
First, they said "now we will have the LB3 count to define how much damages" or "we will improve the DPS from the healers needed to kill the boss".
They have to... difficult content is not only hard mechanics to do. else lets do only bosses like 2nd bardam, managing only mechanics.
Difficulty is getting the mechanics, while sorting out enough damages to not get the enrage. so, getting out of the melee at the last second, remember to do 1 or 2 hit if you go near the boss/an add while moving to your destination. etc etc etc. If SE dont look to the theorical DPS, they will make some content nearly impossible (too much damages needed) or too weak (when enrage is not a matter, you can fight 50% more time to be sure to not do any miss on mechanics...)

[KaivaC]

While I personally love the idea can you imagine the uproar of all the gray parses being stuck together only to continuously hit enrage at 60%+?

SE wants us to carry bads, but then they do not give us enough wiggle room on enrage to truly carry bads. Early in a tier it only takes two bads in an EX before you are basically just slamming your head against enrage.

That's something I hate with a passion. Being carried. SE is out of touch if they think NA, at the very least, is willing to do that for everyone. During game time, I work my ass off to be better than just grey, so why should the raiders have to coddle to lazier players that will not put in nearly half the effort to not be anything before 10th percentile. That irritates me because to me, that's just saying that those players are essentially saying, who cares?

Honestly, what raider won't be bothered by the fact that they sit in grey? It literally is saying that your before average for your job. Then some of those same players argue against having a parser at all. It's irritating.

[Aerlana]

*snip*

What i will say is purely what i think.

Just see, all those "if we have official parser game will be as toxic as wow". And would speak about all "wow do it worse" for nearly all subject.
Many people come from wow, where comunity is more free to do what it want in the game (to some limit like bug exploit and other rule).
On FFXIV all is done for the new player, and the casual player to not have any frustration. "you dont want to have to wait 4 month subscription to get this reward? ok, lets erase the feature we did to thanks fidelity from our customer". "you dont want to confront and justify yourself in PF? ok, we will do all in DF" . When pagos didnt have fate train, most casual did leave and... oh fate train back, miracle. (and i speak CASUAL player, good like bad. just player with low game time ! )

This game is, as i see it, fully for the players with the less gametime, and the people that dont want to have some "serious" gameplay to see most part (all except ultimate). Thing that they dont have in WoW (just see some crying due to 3 dongeon not in the Duty Finder... and the LFR that exists only for those... even if "normal mode" is easy... like raid8 story mode is).
Yes, "good" players are intend to carry the other. Because we are not player in Yoshida's mind, but before all, we are all customers, and time some customers are ok to carry other customers... He is happy because subscription all continue.

If tomorrow he does an official parser (or finally, as he did promise during beta, do the API to do addon like wow) those customers that hate parsers will says "the game become like wow, scandalous" and will probably... go away. . . So customers loss.

This situation (with parser allow but never allow to speak about what they says) is the "best" for him. the player wanting to evolve get their parser (if PC players :-°) the anti-parsers get their "nearly pure game" and all get the hop that the other team finally get rekt (with finally no parser at all or finally official parser)...

[Liam_Harper]

I personally don't doubt its uses, and they are many. Most of them very helpful. I just don't think they should make an official parser that can be viewed group/raid wide is all. It's like giving a 5 year old the keys to a fighter jet for too many people. In a perfect world people would use them right and for the right reasons. This is not a perfect world.

Then why is ACT ok? The 5 year olds have been flying around in fighter jets for years and the game is in one piece.

[Bluvirus]

personally I'm neutral when it comes to parsers. I can see where they could help if the individual wants but I, myself, don't care to know numbers. I feel numbers do not reflect the instance or the fight since every fight in one way shape or form can be different. My parse was uploaded to fflogs without my knowledge or consent. That is something I have a problem with. If you use it to better yourself, cool, but when you parse and upload someone else's numbers without them knowing it, that isn't cool at all.

[Kallera]

People will attempt to game the parser system for themselves and others, especially if said information can be looked up and the person judged for content outside of raids. Uploading a parser system will make people a hell of a lot more paranoid about the game and whether they can participate in content, or whether their attempting to learn, or the actions of their teammates, will affect their worth as a player.

You can say that its already out and about, but an official parser would make it official and widespread and all chatter and refusals to work with another person would have the dev's approval all over it. Since there is never any solid information on rotation and mechanics are becoming increasingly deceptive, the game starts to become unfriendly and unfair, especially if you are starting late.