How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[RuleofThree]

Yes you can! Compare logs and look at casts. Look at buff windows, compare downtime, it shows deaths and debuffs taken as well. Lots of details that don't care about your item level.

What content were you running when you were called a bad DRK just because of your gear?

*takes deep breaths*

No sir. No you can not.

I can look at buff windows. I can look at downtime on cooldowns. I can look at their used rotation. I can see all that wonderful and juicy detail....

...that I already know, because I follow the general rotation already. Do I circle shirk properly? No...I don't play my tank in extremes or savages...that would be rude to the people that actually know the job they are playing. I play dark knight in some normals, some raids, and often in them...I only tank adds, and let the other two tanks play. Why? because I don't want 23 people telling me what I already know. I refer you to the fucking 28 page thesis on Dark Knight...I make sure I follow everything I can for my dungeon running. I'm not perfect...again, Dark Knight is not my bread and butter. I know I'm not suppose to let your blood gauge get too close to max...but I'm not a perfect Dark Knight..I make mistakes. I know you aren't ever suppose to go OOM on a dark knight, and to keep spare change in there for The Blackest Night...but I am not a perfect Dark Knight.

But - and this is the crux of the matter here - the number displayed by the dark knight who is doing O10S on savage? It is no help to a scrub teir dark knight just trying to do his best in mendacity gear. Comparing my i360 self to i380 gods is like bragging about bench pressing 120lbs to a professional bodybuilder.

[KaivaC]

But - and this is the crux of the matter here - the number displayed by the dark knight who is doing O10S on savage? It is no help to a scrub teir dark knight just trying to do his best in mendacity gear. Comparing my i360 self to i380 gods is like bragging about bench pressing 120lbs to a professional bodybuilder.

But....you shouldn't be comparing to a raid you can't even access though...

[RuleofThree]

But....you shouldn't be comparing to a raid you can't even access though...

AHHHH!

You guys can't even agree upon an answer.

Yes you can! Compare logs and look at casts. Look at buff windows, compare downtime, it shows deaths and debuffs taken as well. Lots of details that don't care about your item level.

What content were you running when you were called a bad DRK just because of your gear?

Ok...so look at dark knight raiders and compare and contrast.

But....you shouldn't be comparing to a raid you can't even access though...

....or don't...? oh....oka.....what?

I don't want to compare myself to a raiding dark knight. I want a gd benchmark of another dark knight of similiar iLevel, to compare myself to. That's what should be offered if you want a gd parser to be used as a 'learning tool' for the community. Give them references to compare and contrast to that is relavent to their progression in the game. Not LOL CHECK FFLOGS. DERP

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't want to compare myself to a raiding dark knight. I want a gd benchmark of another dark knight of similiar iLevel, to compare myself to. That's what should be offered if you want a gd parser to be used as a 'learning tool' for the community. Give them references to compare and contrast to that is relavent to their progression in the game. Not LOL CHECK FFLOGS. DERP

iLevel literally means nothing in comparison between two people because a person with your iLevel could be worst than you possibly. Just because the other person has i380 gear doesn't mean that they're doing anything correctly or even know what they're doing either.

FFlogs gives you relevance for MOST of the major fights that you'll be progressing through the game except MSQ instances usually. And you're not even telling us what content you were running so we can't even estimate what you should have been at or doing around that time either. I'm not sure why you're fervently avoiding in mentioning that.

[KaivaC]

I don't want to compare myself to a raiding dark knight. I want a gd benchmark of another dark knight of similiar iLevel, to compare myself to. That's what should be offered if you want a gd parser to be used as a 'learning tool' for the community. Give them references to compare and contrast to that is relavent to their progression in the game. Not LOL CHECK FFLOGS. DERP

Well, for one, based on your posts, the first thing you need to do first is get used to playing DRK at a high level raid area. You can't possibly compare unless you have enough experience on that job to even consider taking it into endgame like that. You get this practice from the normal raids. Then, once you have the experience and the necessary min ilvl to even enter Savage, that is when you want to start doing comparison. Can't jump straight into comparison on a savage raid that starts at ilvl 370, when you haven't even met the prerequisites to even enter it in the first place. FFLOGs does not track ilvl. I dunno why, but it just doesn't track ilvl. You say that you want a benchmark, but in this scenario, that's essentially the same as making a comparison because it sounds like you want to meet a standard that you should have started back in February when everybody was in the 340-370 range. You want a benchmark for current content, now is a good time to look at those DRK logs before people start getting their full BiS.

You want a benchmark for 360? Best thing I can tell you is to look through the stats for 4.2. I just looked and the average at present for DRKs for Phantom Train Savage is 3k DPS - those are the 20th percentile averages. So there's your benchmark. 3k for DRK DPS. 50th percentile for the same job sits at around 3.5k - 3.6k.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't want to compare myself to a raiding dark knight. I want a gd benchmark of another dark knight of similiar iLevel, to compare myself to. That's what should be offered if you want a gd parser to be used as a 'learning tool' for the community. Give them references to compare and contrast to that is relavent to their progression in the game. Not LOL CHECK FFLOGS. DERP

So compare yourself against Sigmascape parses? The highest ilvl was i370, thus you'd have a rough idea of whereabouts you ought to be. Otherwise, wait until your ilvl is closer. It's also fairly simple to make rough estimations. If you see Dark Knights pulling in the 4,500-5,000 range, your aim should be pulling as close to that as you can get. Of course, you aren't going to hitting their numbers yet, but you can ballpark and improve as your ilvl climbs. You can also look at their rotation and see how they're adapting to each fight. When I started optimizing, I pitted myself against an orange tier Dragoon who pulled far higher numbers than I. She, too, had better gear. My goal was simply getting closer to her numbers as I pushed up my ilvl. You're able to do the same.

Just because you can't get exact i360 comparison doesn't make FFlogs or parsers any less of a beneficial learning tool.

[Dualgunner]

*takes deep breaths*

No sir. No you can not.

I can look at buff windows. I can look at downtime on cooldowns. I can look at their used rotation. I can see all that wonderful and juicy detail....

...that I already know, because I follow the general rotation already. Do I circle shirk properly? No...I don't play my tank in extremes or savages...that would be rude to the people that actually know the job they are playing. I play dark knight in some normals, some raids, and often in them...I only tank adds, and let the other two tanks play. Why? because I don't want 23 people telling me what I already know. I refer you to the fucking 28 page thesis on Dark Knight...I make sure I follow everything I can for my dungeon running. I'm not perfect...again, Dark Knight is not my bread and butter. I know I'm not suppose to let your blood gauge get too close to max...but I'm not a perfect Dark Knight..I make mistakes. I know you aren't ever suppose to go OOM on a dark knight, and to keep spare change in there for The Blackest Night...but I am not a perfect Dark Knight.

But - and this is the crux of the matter here - the number displayed by the dark knight who is doing O10S on savage? It is no help to a scrub teir dark knight just trying to do his best in mendacity gear. Comparing my i360 self to i380 gods is like bragging about bench pressing 120lbs to a professional bodybuilder.

Lol i380 gods.

Also if you're following the general rotation like you say you are, you're good. If you genuinely believe there's nothing you can glean from doing cast comparisons then you're a better player than I am, and good job on that. Given how good you seem to be you should also be well aware that FFLogs also tells you the average per cast damage in the casts tab, which should help formulate an idea of your benchmark at i380.

[Dualgunner]

You could take a look at WoW and see if the general playerbase is noticeably better than FFXIV's. You'll find it's not, despite the fact that the game has had parser add-ons for over a decade. The biggest difference is the frequency of parser related drama and the amount of kicks that occur.



Then please enlighten me as to what is so special about FFXIV players that what parsers did in WoW would not be similar to FFXIV?

I'm sure you'll respond with equally anecdotal data.

Well your first issue is "what parsers did in WoW" isn't even something you've proven beyond anecdote either.

[Daibunnie]

Please direct me to where I said people should observe everything and that it was even possible. I think you'll find I said no such thing.

I said some things can be spotted without a parser. Not everything. I also said some things are too subtle to spot without a parser or you may too busy to see it yourself. I even said several times that parsers are excellent tools for this.

I agree that being expected to watch everything is nonsense...hence why I didn't say it!

You said to watch the effects and animations that are occurring from other players when anyone could have had other player animations turned off. You also tried to make it seem like all you need is "personal observation" during a savage raid, when your main focus and observations should be on what the boss is casting and the mechanics that are occurring. Most people don't even check the logs for basic dungeons and old content unless someone is causing the party to fail repeatedly. You admit that a parser can help point out the things that you won't catch, and those small or uncaught mistakes is what can end an ultimate raid. So what were you correcting again? Because it seems like you're deliberately misreading what I'm posting.

My apologies. I just had someone else accuse me of stating players should be able to watch everything in combat and spot all mistakes without a parser when I said no such thing and I even said parsers are great tools for this. I feel like they're deliberately misreading what I say.

You asking everyone else to babysit someone who doesn't even know how to play their class properly or even have proper gear at endgame is what is insulting. Yeah, the game has a bunch of little things happening all at once, wonder if you should be watching for players who aren't playing/geared properly or actually focusing on the fight instead.

But let's not suggest that parsers are the only way of seeing whether someone is pressing the right buttons or not, because that is simply not true.

Of course it's not, so what's your point anyway? My initial examples were taken from another players logs so I'm obviously talking about just the parser data. Not your personal observations in a basic duty where you don't even need a parser to see who is bad.

[Tsumdere]

Dude nice. My post that had no swear words and no attacks in it got deleted. I was just responding to someone about how they shouldn't worry about dungeons too much and that they should find someone who can help them with their job.

And yet these back and forth personal attacks are still here. Quality...