How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Dualgunner]

Forums are actively enforced by moderators hired by SE. Chat is fixed with minimizing the chat window or blocking someone. Emotes simply need you to move away. Was this supposed to be clever? :thinking: I found it silly.



Parsers will not magically make them jerks. It will give them a system to utilize to be jerks. There are no metrics for people getting kicked for low DPS (which is what I had been asking of your quote). All of this is subjective views. So arguing about the 'about of this', or 'decrease of this', or 'increase of this' is silly. I'm not trying to convince you of my position - I don't care what you think - my point is YoshiP has vehemently has said no multiple times, so requesting it is a waste of time. Arguing over the details that are his decision is also a waste of time. You're beating a dead horse.

And parsers, along with the chat log, would be under Square's regulation, and the introduction of a parser would not make harassment, with or without a parser, legal.

[Lunalepsy]

It sounds people want to turn the game into a huge HR project.

[AxlStream]

It sounds people want to turn the game into a huge HR project.

Ha! I never read that comparison made before but it fits so damn well! The poor and useless employees (players) are overprotected compared to the ones actually keeping the company afloat.


Also as far as jerks are concerned. I consider myself one. The only thing holding me back from calling someone out on any mechanical mistake is the fact I could get instantly reported for it. I don't even say stuff like "Hey Ninja, can you delay trick attack to the 5th GCD? Using it on 1st doesn't get the maximum out of it." will get me chastised by the puritans of "playstyle". We just talk smack on discord with our likeminded friends.

[redcurrant18]

Never ask a lady's age, and never ask me for my damage output/healing numbers. There's plenty of other reasons to cause drama during a run without dealing with a parser

[Ilan]

Never ask a lady's age, and never ask me for my damage output/healing numbers. There's plenty of other reasons to cause drama during a run without dealing with a parser

You mean stuff like permanent enrages even when mechanics are done perfectly? Oh wait.

[Dualgunner]

Will either of those things lead to A: A much quicker kill time. B: A clear instead of an enrage wipe.

The answer to both of those is it wont.

You're very, very wrong. If those little optimizations for buff alignment didn't add up to ridiculously quick killtimes, the meta wouldn't be a thing. What is Suzaku's enrage, 10:30? 11:00? My fastest killtime is 8:20. And this is at min iLv+10.

Maybe you don't consider 2 minutes to be a significant number as far as quicker kill. I suppose we'll agree to disagree there. But we're 2 minutes ahead on enrage, meaning recovering from Simon Says deaths is a much easier feat than if the group put no care to numerical optimization.

Sure will those things lead to a slightly better personal 4 digit number at the end of the fight? Sure, but it doesn't do A or B so its pointless and no need to waste official resource on so you can do something that doesn't matter in the grand scheme.

Even 50 more dps over a 10 minute fight is an extra 30,000 damage.

I don't have experience with with o3s just yet but assuming what you say is true then that means there are 2 fights in all of stormblood that require a change to the opener which is the new trail and this fight every other fight in this expansion and pretty much all of them from the last you can just use the muscle memory gained from hitting that dummy

I'll leave Ultimates out because it's a given optimal rotation is not entirely feasible.

Offhand...

Dummy opener in Lakshmi, Suzaku, Demon Chad, Guardian, and Clown Kefka range from "Don't try it because of adds/interrupts" to "Be careful there's no precast/possibility of enemy aiming a raidkiller at you."

Beyond that every fight has little intricacies that, yes, you adapt the base rotation to, but there is no quantitative feedback that the concessions you make to the rotation to match the fight are even the most optimal.

I'll agree to disagree with you on this topic.

[thegreatonemal]

You're very, very wrong. If those little optimizations for buff alignment didn't add up to ridiculously quick killtimes, the meta wouldn't be a thing. What is Suzaku's enrage, 10:30? 11:00? My fastest killtime is 8:20. And this is at min iLv+10.

Maybe you don't consider 2 minutes to be a significant number as far as quicker kill. I suppose we'll agree to disagree there. But we're 2 minutes ahead on enrage, meaning recovering from Simon Says deaths is a much easier feat than if the group put no care to numerical optimization.


Even 50 more dps over a 10 minute fight is an extra 30,000 damage.



I'll leave Ultimates out because it's a given optimal rotation is not entirely feasible.

Offhand...

Dummy opener in Lakshmi, Suzaku, Demon Chad, Guardian, and Clown Kefka range from "Don't try it because of adds/interrupts" to "Be careful there's no precast/possibility of enemy aiming a raidkiller at you."

Beyond that every fight has little intricacies that, yes, you adapt the base rotation to, but there is no quantitative feedback that the concessions you make to the rotation to match the fight are even the most optimal.

I'll agree to disagree with you on this topic.

Valid points, however what that 2 minutes saves some raid wide aoes no major mechanics were skipped or cut short. it varies from fight to fight A11s for example optimizing can lead you to skipping the entire add phase and a bunch of other things in between. Most fights are not this its my own opinion that if you aren't skipping anything major then whats the real benefit of doing other than because you can? There isn't one.

[DreameR7g]

Valid points, however what that 2 minutes saves some raid wide aoes no major mechanics were skipped or cut short. it varies from fight to fight A11s for example optimizing can lead you to skipping the entire add phase and a bunch of other things in between. Most fights are not this its my own opinion that if you aren't skipping anything major then whats the real benefit of doing other than because you can? There isn't one.

Well, if you consider that we all have a limited time on this Earth, it is not unreasonable to be the type of person who wants to optimize the time they have. This is especially true when you are constantly farming an EX primal for a certain mount or if you have a certain block of time set aside to raid. I personally only set aside 2 hours in 3 days of the week total to raid. Optimization to save that time is quite desirable by someone like me. Besides, even if it is a small time save, in this case 2 minutes, it can definitely add up over time and become a big save. As they say, all it takes is one step to determine a future.

As for a parser, I do not believe there is anything problematic with the tool itself. The problem, as I foresee it, lies in the maturity of the player base at large. Naturally, information is power, especially if you are given information about other people and not just yourself. How would you make sure that this power is in the right hands? I believe this is why SE is supremely hesitant to give us an official parser. Obviously, this doesn't mean -everybody- who'd use it would be immature with it but if there is enough immaturity, I can see it destabilizing the game all because of the information gathered.

[thegreatonemal]

Well, if you consider that we all have a limited time on this Earth, it is not unreasonable to be the type of person who wants to optimize the time they have. This is especially true when you are constantly farming an EX primal for a certain mount or if you have a certain block of time set aside to raid. I personally only set aside 2 hours in 3 days of the week total to raid. Optimization to save that time is quite desirable by someone like me. Besides, even if it is a small time save, in this case 2 minutes, it can definitely add up over time and become a big save. As they say, all it takes is one step to determine a future.

As for a parser, I do not believe there is anything problematic with the tool itself. The problem, as I foresee it, lies in the maturity of the player base at large. Naturally, information is power, especially if you are given information about other people and not just yourself. How would you make sure that this power is in the right hands? I believe this is why SE is supremely hesitant to give us an official parser. Obviously, this doesn't mean -everybody- who'd use it would be immature with it but if there is enough immaturity, I can see it destabilizing the game all because of the information gathered.

Sure if your in a set group speedrunning becomes useful and parser can speed of the process of optimization. No one here has any issues with that. The thing is unless all 8 of you do that you aren't saving any time that's just not how this game works.

[DreameR7g]

Sure if your in a set group speedrunning becomes useful and parser can speed of the process of optimization. No one here has any issues with that. The thing is unless all 8 of you do that you aren't saving any time that's just not how this game works.

I agree with you. This is why it is important to find like-minded individuals in order to further your goals. You cannot assume everybody will have the same goal as you. Aspects like the Duty Finder are not the place to force your ideals onto others. Simply adapt and work with what you have.