How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[SenorPatty]

Did you even open the two threads to read that even if they were not performed well, the two ops have been subject to rude behavior by the people judging their performance ?

Giving more tools to everyone to judge others will only end up in even more toxicity. "It will happen without a parser anyway" is a wrong argument. You are saying that like if having tons of players who actually dont even know what a parser is, getting suddenly access to one isn't gonna stir up even more trouble.

These two threads are in fact highly relevant to the answer of your question.

From where are we going to get more toxicity, the six other players who were in those parties in those threads or the same person who happened to be jerk?

If the act of kicking someone is toxic itself because that's how someone feels, then guess what? Toxicity of that nature is plenty rampant already. All you have to do is mess up mechanics enough time to get booted. Don't need a parser to help being "toxic" with that. Dps phase not being cleared? Disband, don't need parser to help being toxic with that again. I can bring countless of examples that don't need a parser to help being toxic when it comes to kicking people out.

If you want to argue that parsers will corrupt people's behaviours into being openly or subtly toxic and thus quantifying the amount of toxicity to increased numbers, guess what? People don't change easily. Jerks who like being jerks will continue to be jerks. Civil people who like to be civil will continue to be civil, parser or no parser. However, like any human behaviour, prolonged exposure to positive or negative experiences can change people's way of thinking. You could say parsers can bring out the worst in people but in the same vein, it can bring out the best.

Parsers are not one-sided tools like anti-parser people like to make them to be.

[Zephera]

Did you even open the two threads to read that even if they were not performed well, the two ops have been subject to rude behavior by the people judging their performance ?

It's actually pretty rude to not put in a reasonable amount of effort in a team game as well.

[Gemina]

How would it be toxic, the OP asks? All the while FFXIV has one of the least toxic communities in the mmo genre. Then factor the present toxicity despite the lack of an in-game parser. How much of it is caused by third party tools illegal to the game's ToS? Does anyone truly think that the current toxicity in the game will be reduced by an in-game parser?

SE has a turned a blind eye/deaf ear to those third party tools being used for parsing, and in return you get outright refusal to address any kind of in-game parser. I would consider this a win for those of you who like to use such tools because you're here on the forums talking about how x number of DPS is lacking and are not getting 86'ed from the game.

Fact of the matter is that it is not in SE's best interest to eject players using 3rd party tools. They will discipline players in clear violation, but suspect and hearsay is completely ignored. It really is no different than any other community gathering where you know you cannot stop all illegal activity, but you are required to police the activity you observe and priority is placed on keeping said gathering safe. SE has far less concern for 3rd party tool users than actual harassment going on in the game, which may or may not be a result of them. They most certainly don't want to add to their workload by adding an in-game parser.

So in short, the question being asked should be how would an in-game parser NOT be toxic?

[MoroMurasaki]

So in short, the question being asked should be how would an in-game parser NOT be toxic?

Because an in-game parser would not suddenly lift anti-harrassment rules from existence.

If SE added a parser tomorrow and I joined a party where I was underperforming and someone said "Moro you are garbage, uninstall" I would still be able to report them for harrassment, exactly the same as I can right now. How they came to their conclusion that I was garbage is irrelevant, they insulted me which is harrassment.

The misunderstanding here is that some people think if I joined a party and was underperforming and was told "You're doing X dps which is very low for your class and ilvl, look up rotation info and try again" is toxic. It isn't, its factual. That is not harrassment.

I don't understand how people can mix these things up. If you combine them into "Moro you're doing X dps which is really low you're garbage uninstall" it is still harrassment.

The key in harrassment, I feel crazy having to lay things out like this but it seems necessary, is the actual harrassment which means in my example the person calling me garbage and telling me to uninstall.

For that matter telling someone their numbers is not and never has been harrassment. When you report someone for something like that you're reporting them for SE's asinine anti-third-party rules, not harrassment. These things can happen together but they are not mutually inclusive.

Saying having an in-game parser would increase toxicity is like saying owning a toaster will increase burnt bread. You can burn bread plenty of other ways, plenty of times you or others will use your toaster and not burn bread at all but throwing the toaster out doesn't mean you will not still burn bread in the oven or while making grilled cheese or while microwaving a lean cuisine. The toaster isn't making you burn your bread.

[Gemina]

Because an in-game parser would not suddenly lift anti-harrassment rules from existence.

If SE added a parser tomorrow and I joined a party where I was underperforming and someone said "Moro you are garbage, uninstall" I would still be able to report them for harrassment, exactly the same as I can right now. How they came to their conclusion that I was garbage is irrelevant, they insulted me which is harrassment.

The misunderstanding here is that some people think if I joined a party and was underperforming and was told "You're doing X dps which is very low for your class and ilvl, look up rotation info and try again" is toxic. It isn't, its factual. That is not harrassment.

I don't understand how people can mix these things up. If you combine them into "Moro you're doing X dps which is really low you're garbage uninstall" it is still harrassment.

The key in harrassment, I feel crazy having to lay things out like this but it seems necessary, is the actual harrassment which means in my example the person calling me garbage and telling me to uninstall.

For that matter telling someone their numbers is not and never has been harrassment. When you report someone for something like that you're reporting them for SE's asinine anti-third-party rules, not harrassment. These things can happen together but they are not mutually inclusive.

Saying having an in-game parser would increase toxicity is like saying owning a toaster will increase burnt bread. You can burn bread plenty of other ways, plenty of times you or others will use your toaster and not burn bread at all but throwing the toaster out doesn't mean you will not still burn bread in the oven or while making grilled cheese or while microwaving a lean cuisine. The toaster isn't making you burn your bread.

This is all great. But it doesn't answer my question. How would an in-game parser NOT be toxic? Believe me, I am all for fact over perception but in all honestly, you really responded to very little of what I addressed despite quoting me directly.

I don't have any confusion, nor used rDPS as a means to harass other players. After my post, do you really feel you need to explain to me what in-game harassment is? However, maybe I am misinterpreting your intent. In any case, the prevention of harassing other players is exactly what I am going for so I believe we share a common goal here.

If a parser is used in any way to correct another player, it is no longer a personal parser. You understand this, right? If you think tossing out facts exempts condescending/toxic behavior, you are also mistaken. That's not the way this game, or the world works.

[MoroMurasaki]

This is all great. But it doesn't answer my question. How would an in-game parser NOT be toxic? Believe me, I am all for fact over perception but in all honestly, you really responded to very little of what I addressed despite quoting me directly.

I don't have any confusion, nor used rDPS as a means to harass other players. After my post, do you really feel you need to explain to me what in-game harassment is? However, maybe I am misinterpreting your intent. In any case, the prevention of harassing other players is exactly what I am going for so I believe we share a common goal here.

If a parser is used in any way to correct another player, it is no longer a personal parser. You understand this, right? If you think tossing out facts exempts condescending/toxic behavior, you are also mistaken. That's not the way this game, or the world works.

I was responding to your rephrased question about how an in-game parser could not be toxic. The tl;dr is essentially that a tool can't be toxic and a tool that gives numbers is not pumping out toxicity. There is absolutely nothing toxic about parsing or looking at data of any kind, be it for yourself or others.

You seem to imply that an in-game parser would increase toxicity when you mention not wanting to 'add to their workloads' by implementing an in-game parser while referencing SE's investigation of harrassment complaints. Sorry I'm not multi-quoting, I'm on my phone and lazy.

This mentality that in in game parser would add to the workload of SE's harrassment investigation team in conjunction with your closing statement asking how a parser would not be toxic leads me to believe you fundamentally misunderstand what toxicity or harrassment are which is why the majority of my post is spent explaining them.

I kind of feel like you didn't read my post, not that you're under any obligation to I suppose but you did decide to respond to it. I never implied that 'tossing out facts' would exempt someone from their behavior being deemed toxic but as long as they are only tossing out facts and not being insulting with them then no they are not harassing anyone.

[Legion88]

This is all great. But it doesn't answer my question. How would an in-game parser NOT be toxic? Believe me, I am all for fact over perception but in all honestly, you really responded to very little of what I addressed despite quoting me directly.

I don't have any confusion, nor used rDPS as a means to harass other players. After my post, do you really feel you need to explain to me what in-game harassment is? However, maybe I am misinterpreting your intent. In any case, the prevention of harassing other players is exactly what I am going for so I believe we share a common goal here.

If a parser is used in any way to correct another player, it is no longer a personal parser. You understand this, right? If you think tossing out facts exempts condescending/toxic behavior, you are also mistaken. That's not the way this game, or the world works.

A parser in itself is not toxic because it just shows facts and facts are never toxic.
Toxicity occours when facts get handled between people and how the facts get formed and transfered.

So the solution would be to shut down the game and exterminate humanity to prevent toxicity.

[MoroMurasaki]

A parser in itself is not toxic because it just shows facts and facts are never toxic.
Toxicity occours when facts get handled between people and how the facts get formed and transfered.

So the solution would be to shut down the game and exterminate humanity to prevent toxicity.

I want to give this more likes. Please take them ;-;

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This is all great. But it doesn't answer my question. How would an in-game parser NOT be toxic? Believe me, I am all for fact over perception but in all honestly, you really responded to very little of what I addressed despite quoting me directly.

I don't have any confusion, nor used rDPS as a means to harass other players. After my post, do you really feel you need to explain to me what in-game harassment is? However, maybe I am misinterpreting your intent. In any case, the prevention of harassing other players is exactly what I am going for so I believe we share a common goal here.

If a parser is used in any way to correct another player, it is no longer a personal parser. You understand this, right? If you think tossing out facts exempts condescending/toxic behavior, you are also mistaken. That's not the way this game, or the world works.

Because the assumption typically thrown around here is people aren't toxic without a parser and suddenly would become such if we were allowed to discuss ACT openly. And that simply isn't true as evident by numerous examples. People who are toxic find ways to spew their rhetoric without the need of a parse. Those aren't, will not abruptly turn into assholes because they can see your DPS.

Nor is this an individualistic game. If I have a Monk in my party pulling only 3,500 DPS while every other DPS is well beyond 5,000. They're contributing almost half as much to the overall group. Why isn't I be able to point that out? It isn't toxic to say, "Um, Monk? What's going on? Your damage is really low." If they feel otherwise, well, too bad. It's inconsiderable they join an EX Suzaku party and expect everyone else to carry them through because they can't be bothered to learn a proper rotation. Frankly, I find that attitude far more toxic than the example I gave.

[Ilyrian]

DPS just don't want the same accountability as tanks and healers. Understandable, but ultimately not good if you want to better your game play.