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  1. #1
    Player
    Maeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,281
    Character
    Maeka Blazewing
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by van_arn View Post
    First, I appreciate your desire to see if there's a way to make this possible. However, what you've listed isn't actionable due to the player veto.

    -The option to hide from the system means people will eventually be excluded from content merely for the act of hiding. Gms can't block this, simply because all it takes to veto this restriction is a silent, unexplained kick of the hidden player. Remove kick, and players would disband and reform without the hidden player. See where this is going? Hide yourself and you stigmatize yourself; you have something to hide.
    -Gms are actually pretty wise to lean so heavily on playstyle differences, because that's exactly what happens so often. There's no sense in blocking someone from the game if oil and water didn't mix, but things were handled with the ingame tools like votekick or vote abandon. If GMs were to remove playstyle differences as a justification they could use, you would see the player veto manifest as a harassment report on the player that couldn't outdamage the healer because they were "obviously trolling, nobody can be that bad unless they try." "They turned our perfect run and they did it intentionally, ban pls"
    -While we currently do not see numbers in pf, that doesn't mean even now people don't get mysteriously booted for no given reason because someone looked up their history online, or did a few runs and suddenly got kicked to the curb because they were doing half of the damage of a healer. Of the ones you listed, this one's probably the most vetoed on pf even now.

    Furthermore, limiting any ingame tool through the terms of service only means more people will develop ESP, or find any hundred other ways to talk about things they're not talking about and sidestep any restrictions placed on the ingame tool: in effect this sidesteps any restrictions.

    Of course, ask any of these players how they developed esp that gives them such precise information and they'd swear up and down they don't use third party utilities, because of course third party utilities aren't permitted.
    These are the exact reasons why it must be personal-only WITHOUT any option to allow others to see your parses.

    Yes, third-party parsers will still exist, but at least with an official personal-only parser, I could at least wail at dummies and experiment without breaking the ToS and/or satisfy my own curiosity/help myself perform better.
    (0)
    Last edited by Maeka; 09-25-2018 at 10:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Arrius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,174
    Character
    Mirn Armaya
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeka View Post
    These are the exact reasons why it must be personal-only WITHOUT any option to allow others to see your parses.
    You got that already. It's called Stone, Sea, Sky. People even made a website for it so you can quickly determine how much DPS you do based on the remaining time and remaining % the training dummy has.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    van_arn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,960
    Character
    Van Arn
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Penthea View Post
    Right so I should turn a blind eye to any form of harassment just because it didn't happen to me. Sounds like a wonderful healthy way to maintain a friendly community.

    By the way it is my business if I'm in the group where the harassment happened. I have little choice but watch it happen. I have to endure the dungeon progress slowing down or coming to a standstill because of it. I have to wait for someone else to join the group if someone leaves over it. Or I could leave if watching it bothered me enough, in which case I do feel personally offended by it.

    Two weeks ago I left a group because two players were harassing a sprout tank. I advised him to report them and I left because I couldn't stand being in their company anymore. I go to dungeons to kill things and get loot. Not to watch people be horrible to a sprout and troll him. This was not me being offended on the sprout's behalf. I was offended because I went in to get some xp and what I got was two people being bullies making the experience unpleasant.

    But apparently I'm not allowed to find something unpleasant because I wasn't the primary target. Hmm.
    You're right, unless you're the one getting the harassment it's not your business. You did the right thing dropping from group and advising that tank to file a ticket.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player RiyahArp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,471
    Character
    Riyah Arpeggio
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    If people didn't make mountains out of molehills so much, it probably would be okay. They gripe about jobs being useless if they do less than 2% under other jobs in optimal situations, or they complain about casuals when the worst thing that happens in 90% of runs is a dungeon takes 20 minutes instead of fifteen. They not only clear savage content, they find that unfulfilling and must rank people who do via a third party website by DPS, padding the DPS at the top by using specific comps and risky play. I don't think that's a particularly healthy culture to spread downwards through making parsers available to everyone and usuable without penalty.
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    Fhaerron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    1,032
    Character
    Fhaerron Kobayashi
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Lol guys are you seriously still wasting time and energy on this?
    Just let the anti people have their say on the forums.
    We have our functional parser mod and FFlogs for for more in depth analyzing anyway, and For our friends on PS4, we can parse for them.
    Who cares what the anti people say on the forums?
    (2)
    Letter from the Producer LIVE Part IX Q&A Summary (10/30/2013)
    Q: Will there be any maintenance fees or other costs for housing, besides the cost of the land and house?
    A: In older MMOs, such as Ultima Online, there was a house maintenance fee you had to pay weekly, but in FFXIV: ARR we decided against this system. Similarly, these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

  6. #6
    Player
    SenorPatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Cosmic Black Hole of a Hot Pocket
    Posts
    3,054
    Character
    Vice Shark
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhaerron View Post
    Lol guys are you seriously still wasting time and energy on this?
    Just let the anti people have their say on the forums.
    We have our functional parser mod and FFlogs for for more in depth analyzing anyway, and For our friends on PS4, we can parse for them.
    Who cares what the anti people say on the forums?
    To be completely fair, even if the OP had made a simple request to have parsers for ps4 without asking if it would be toxic, it would've devolved into this.

    I mean, there's already one of the usual suspects riding the anti-raiders agenda train in this thread and we're already seeing the inevitable rise of the slugfest in small doses so yeah...
    (5)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne View Post
    Healing DRK is literally... the same since ShB. The reason why people think it's a meme to heal nowadays because DRK receives very little to no buff to their sustainability vs 3 other tanks getting something useful. If you're capable of healing DRK back in ShB (or any tanks), then you'll heal EW DRK just fine.

  7. #7
    Player

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,057
    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatonemal View Post
    How many times must we go over this.

    A parser is useless fflogs is what makes parsers useful. Unless SE makes an fflogs like system it will be useless.

    Unless you are trying to speed run any piece of content fllogs and parsers are useless. nothing in this game requires you to optimize your dps down to a gcd This game is not balanced like that. so having a parser and fflogs like program become official just invites a bunch of toxic issue for the very small positive of helping everyone speedrun if they wish.

    A 4 digit number at the end of a fight tells you nothing useful not how to improve it or even how you got it.
    Not entirely true. There is an analysis website that was built that I use quite a bit, and I have actually seen a marked improvement over my play over the weekend, based on the logs that I analyzed there. So parsers would have a use - if we were allowed to, say, save it to our lodestone and paste the data in a similar analysis site, I imagine that the benefits would be great. If players had the desire, and they were able to get details like this based on a run, and got feedback on what areas they could improve in specifically, then I don't see why it would be a huge issue. Players like me don't like the idea of being carried. We want to be able to pull our own weight without relying on our party members to pick up our slack. You'd be surprised at how many people have failed the DPS checks in O9N and O11N.

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorPatty View Post
    To be completely fair, even if the OP had made a simple request to have parsers for ps4 without asking if it would be toxic, it would've devolved into this.

    I mean, there's already one of the usual suspects riding the anti-raiders agenda train in this thread and we're already seeing the inevitable rise of the slugfest in small doses so yeah...
    Which is why I suggest that we just ignore those riding that train - our responding to them is only going to push this thread even further into circles and snipes on both sides. Let them say what they want - I do not intend to engage those select individuals in yet another debate that is ultimately pointless and will derail the thread.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player
    thegreatonemal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Gridinia
    Posts
    679
    Character
    Malcolm Varanidae
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by KaivaC View Post
    Not entirely true. There is an analysis website that was built that I use quite a bit, and I have actually seen a marked improvement over my play over the weekend, based on the logs that I analyzed there. So parsers would have a use - if we were allowed to, say, save it to our lodestone and paste the data in a similar analysis site, I imagine that the benefits would be great. If players had the desire, and they were able to get details like this based on a run, and got feedback on what areas they could improve in specifically, then I don't see why it would be a huge issue. Players like me don't like the idea of being carried. We want to be able to pull our own weight without relying on our party members to pick up our slack. You'd be surprised at how many people have failed the DPS checks in O9N and O11N.
    The larger point was unless you rotation was flawed in someway the improvements don't really mean anything other than self satisfaction. That's not worth the damage it will cause to the community at large. Most people will not be using it properly like you and others do. they will be looking at that 4 digit number and making judgments about other players based on it with no context.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,057
    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatonemal View Post
    The larger point was unless you rotation was flawed in someway the improvements don't really mean anything other than self satisfaction. That's not worth the damage it will cause to the community at large. Most people will not be using it properly like you and others do. they will be looking at that 4 digit number and making judgments about other players based on it with no context.
    ...except in my original post, I put something of an emphasis on personal. As in, only you see your own numbers. How can you judge others if you can't even see their numbers? If you recall, I'm specifically speaking about having one that is officially accessible for us PS4 users.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    thegreatonemal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Gridinia
    Posts
    679
    Character
    Malcolm Varanidae
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 100
    How many times must we go over this.

    A parser is useless fflogs is what makes parsers useful. Unless SE makes an fflogs like system it will be useless.

    Unless you are trying to speed run any piece of content fllogs and parsers are useless. nothing in this game requires you to optimize your dps down to a gcd This game is not balanced like that. so having a parser and fflogs like program become official just invites a bunch of toxic issue for the very small positive of helping everyone speedrun if they wish.

    A 4 digit number at the end of a fight tells you nothing useful not how to improve it or even how you got it.
    (2)

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