The coming Garlean invasion

[NoblePigeon]

I have not once seen someone here say that Eorzea is 100% full of goodness and heroism. We're not talking about Eorzea's woes because they are not relevant to the discussion. That's reserved for when we're talking about the Dragonsong War, or the Ul'dahan Revolution, or Limsa's treatment of the Sahagin. But we're not. If people want to start a thread about problems plaguing Eorzea, well, then it would be more relevant.

We're talking about Garlemald. Are people not allowed to have discussions about the Empire's authoritarianism and atrocities without having to actively remind everyone that "oh Eorzea is just as bad"? People who pay attention to the story are already aware of this.

[Bright-Flower]

What exactly is so bad about bypassing tariffs again? Let's say Lolorito got his port in Eureka and could circumvent Hingan tariffs. So what? Hingan will have to be more competitive with their taxing but it's not like armies are going to pour onto their shores and take over or start bombing them.

There are certainly dark things going on in Eorzea but I really don't see why wanting to avoid Hingan tariffs is a big deal to anyone besides Hingans who are getting rich off said tariffs.

[Remedi]

As long as ppl stance is not I'm more pure than thou (which we aren't btw)everything is fine

[Cilia]

Well, we've already drifted far off topic... why the hell not. I'm going to hide-box it because it's so far off topic.

The Problem with Circumventing Hingan Tariffs

It'll send Kugane, at least, down the toilet. Turn it into the Detroit of Hingashi!

Kugane is a port town - it makes most if not all of its revenue from the tariffs Lolorito and Rowena are trying to get around. Let's assume they do get that trading post set up on Eureka. If that happens, it won't just draw away the Eorzeans' business - everyone doing business in Kugane with intent to spread their goods further abroad will be compelled to use that port instead for everything but imports headed to Hingashi itself, assuming Eureka's tariffs are lower. Without that tax revenue, Kugane won't be able to sustain itself - or at least, not at the rather opulent levels it's presently at. It would essentially allow the EATC and Rowena to price gouge imported goods in the Othardian region due to being free to set their own tariffs.

Depending on how far Kugane's tax revenue reaches, that could have a wide-reaching impact on Hingashi as a whole. Since it's funded in part by Lolorito's EATC, and Lolorito holds a position of high governmental standing in Ul'dah due to his wealth, it could lead to a conflict of interest - is he doing this for the sake of Ul'dah, or as a private businessman? (Most likely the latter.)

However. The accusation that "Eorzea is adopting imperialist practices" and "attempting to start a trade war" is a gross exaggeration of what's actually happening. A couple of privately owned businesses (one of which is, admittedly, connected to an Eorzean government) are simply doing what's in the best interest of their business. Businesses exist to turn a profit, not give foreign governments record revenues through exorbitant tariffs - if they see a chance to increase their profits, it would behoove them to take it. If that comes at Hingashi's detriment, so be it - they are businesses, not charities. The accusation also reaches far beyond the people it should be levied at - it's two people and their companies, not Eorzea as a whole. The majority of Ul'dah, and all of Limsa Lominsa, Gridania, Ishgard, and Ala Mhigo have nothing to do with it at all and, in all honesty, probably do not care much since it's unlikely to impact them in any meaningful way.

Furthermore, as Kugane is the only port open to foreign trade in Hingashi... again, it will likely go down the toilet unless it gets competitive with Eureka's tariffs, but the rest of Hingashi should be fine. The entire country was closed to foreign trade until relatively recently, if I recall correctly, and the wealth generated in Kugane through tariffs likely doesn't reach far beyond it. Kugane's streets might not be paved with koban anymore, but the rest of the country should get through it no worse for the wear.

There. I acknowledged the nuances. Press the issue and I'm likely to come up with a Chewbacca Counterargument, for my amusement!
So I suggest it die here. Red Herring, thou hast fulfilled thy purpose. Pray return from whence you came!

[Ramesses]

I'm in the same boat. It's always great to encounter another Ivalice fan. The similarities between FFXIV and FFXII are actually what led me to be hooked in the first place...and they are what keep me invested as the story moves forward. I'd honestly suggest that those who haven't played FFXII yet invest in doing so if they can. It would, perhaps, aid in understanding FFXIV's delightful nuances.

Yes indeed Theo... I must say, it's been a while since we debated and finally agreed on something *(laughs)*. I completely echo your comments that FFXII and Tactics are games that must be played in order to really pick up on the excellent nuances Yoshi keeps handing us. Yep, I'm a massive Ivalice fan and played FFXII quite a few times over.

When FFXIV was initially announced and more information trickled down that the legendary Akihiko Yoshida would be the Art Director and Lead Concept Artist for FFXIV, I literally cheered and howled to the rooftops. Then the 1.0 Devs finally unveiled Gaius as the main antagonist for FFXIV 1.0 and I've been fascinated ever since.

Why? Here are but a few elements and similarities off the top of my head, each of which ties into the next: Spoilers ahead to anyone who has NOT completed the FFXII story.

A nation that needed liberating:

• Princess Ashe (she pissed me off at times) survived the brutal assassination of her father the King of Dalmasca and spent the next few years trying to liberate her homeland.
• Lyse (she pissed me off at times) survived the brutal assassination of her father, one of the founding leaders of the resistance in Ala Mhigo, joined the Scions, lost her place in the scheme of things, found her place in the scheme of things, and spent next few (whatever amount of time) trying to liberate her homeland

The Military

• The Garlean Empire has the Legati commanding their legions; they have massive airships.
• Archadian Empire has the Magistrate Judges... and their gear have obvious similarities with the Garlean Legati (this was the first thing that drew me into the culture of Garlemald). They have massive airships.

The Political Landscape:

• The Garleans have an Emperor who has a Senate that offers advice on state matters but their power is ultimately minuscule at best
• The Archadians have an Emperor who has a Senate that offers advice on state matters... they were marginally powerful, however once the Emperor fell ill, they sought to install a puppet on the throne whom they could control. My boy Vayne decimated them for their stupidity.

The Ruling House

• The Garleans have House Galvus who has some dealings with the Ascians. They have ruled unchallenged since the dawn of the Garlean republic and have now produced two Emperors in their dynasty.
• The Archadian's have House Solidor who have some dealings with the Occuria. They have produced the last four consecutive Emperors in their dynasty (out of a total eleven in their imperial history). Vayne would be the fifth and Larsa the sixth... both brothers went on to make history.

The underlying theme surrounding the ruling House

• Vayne Solidor (great "villain" by the way), the Emperor's extremely capable third son, ultimately wanted to cease the controlling power that the Occuria held over mankind and hand man's destiny back to them... and he succeeded.
• Varis? Gaius? Even maybe True Zenos? are now leaning towards the same theme and this is truly fascinating for me to watch unfold.

By the way Theo, changing gears a little bit: I'm always curious to ask people who have played FFXII who they thought had the best ending. Who's ending did you find the most fitting?

Personally for me, Balthier and Vaan's ending are tied in second place (Ashe's ending doesn't count for me because her's was predictable). The one that struck a chord in me and I never tire of stating it is Basch's ending... the scene where he walks to meet Larsa and he removes the Judge's helm, revealing how much he looks exactly like his twin brother with his hair cut short, made me smile till tomorrow. This poor guy almost couldn't catch a break:

• Had failed to protect his original homeland from the Empire
• Had failed to prevent his brother from running off to join the Empire
• Had failed to protect Prince Rasler
• Had failed to protect his King
• Had even failed to protect his men which included Vaan's older brother

In one fell swoop, he had patched things up with Noah, redeemed his guilt over his various failures and was now technically the guardian + right hand man to the new young Emperor while also being the protector of both Dalmasca and Archadia.

I think its also another reason why I want Gaius to get a decent ending... his is also a story of redemption that I need to see play out. He deserves a solid chance to make things right.

[Remedi]

What Varis said in the cutscene was idd reminiscing of the theme of FFXII. And in a way was what the archbishop told to Lahabrea too

[DarthSanguine]

Castrum Marinum is portrayed as being somewhere near The Cieldalaes, a group of islands in the Rhotano Sea halfway between Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah.

Castrum Marinum is the building just off of Cape Westwind in Western Thanalan. It is not in the middle of the Rhotano.

[ObsidianFire]

That's one of the those place where cut-scene information and zone map information differ. And there's no way the zone maps are built with correct scale or distances in mind...

Operation Archon runs on the assumption that Castrum Marinum is in The Cieldalaes. It specifies that the outpost at Cape Westwind is what connect Castrum Marinum to the mainland. Overall, it's one of the best sources for where the Castrums are on the world map in the game.

[LineageRazor]

#EorzeaDidNothingWrong

Said, I'm pretty sure no one on any thread in the lodestone forums. Ever. Dear lord.

And would Eorzea consider it an act of war if a company from a foreign nation set up competitive trade with Eorzea? It boggles my mind that you think they would. Lolorito might get pissy, and he's shady enough to maybe do something underhanded about it, but at no point would the government of any Eorzean nation become involved. Or likely even care much.

No, the actions of Rowena and Lolorito, acting in capacity as businessmen and -women does not even remotely point to any sort of "Eorzean imperialism"!

[Kallera]

Meh, I wouldn't call the indepenent business ventures of Rowena as an example of imperialism. She has contacts and business ventures in the empire as well. And while he is even shadier business, Lolorito is the same thing.

I do think Eorzea, at times in the plot, is starting to adopt more extreme methods as time goes on, and I'd be unenthusiastic about the idea of unification, but they are not alone in becoming more and more extreme and is probably what the Ascians desire out of reaction among the nations, they want a side desperate and powerful enough to "press the red button" as it were, and that need not be the Empire, nor Eorzea the target. The Grand Companies are using thaumaturgical bomb collars, a spy network of considerable reach on crystals and faith, anti primal summoning teams. All these things are beneficial now, but its no leap of logic to see their potential for misuse.

But coming back to the invasion, I kinda want this to be a bloodbath in the Empire's favor. They've spent a considerable amount of time in the game getting beaten and while I wouldn't want it to be easy, this would be a good time to show they aren't going to sit there and get dismantled.

But that is assuming said invasion takes place, or doesn't result in a standoff/no man's land situation on the Eorzean front as well. If that happens it might be what is needed for a chance for the ascians to be found out in time and both factions to lay down their arms... or for political instability/resources to make things come to a head.