Thank you for increased difficulty

[TaleraRistain]

Some people praise the vault for having a nice increase difficultly, but I question that when a healer can try MPK a rdm, the healer dies while doing this, and we kill the final boss in the vault with RDM heals. Does that really show difficulty scaling if a healer can goof around and die and still finish the last boss fight?

You're seeing it now. Not how it was at launch when we were in much lower ilevel of gear and didn't have red mages. It was the same thing with Keeper of the Lake. In the gear available and the classes available at the time it came out, the final Middy fight was hard in general and very hard on healers. But the thing those dungeons have in common with The Burn is the unforgiving nature of the mechanics. The insta-kill stuff seems to be what SE falls back on when they want to implement "challenge".

[van_arn]

You're seeing it now. Not how it was at launch when we were in much lower ilevel of gear and didn't have red mages. It was the same thing with Keeper of the Lake. In the gear available and the classes available at the time it came out, the final Middy fight was hard in general and very hard on healers. But the thing those dungeons have in common with The Burn is the unforgiving nature of the mechanics. The insta-kill stuff seems to be what SE falls back on when they want to implement "challenge".

With how overpowered healing is in normal content, that's what they have to do. Sometimes I end up correcting so many mistakes a vuln-stacking DPS makes I wish we'd go back to neverreap's last boss where if they can't stand on the platform I don't have to bother with them again.

[Jib]

I really don’t see the issue with mist dragon... so far I have always one-shot that dungeon... I go as whm and atm I’m only 363. Killed it first with 361. Maybe I’ve been lucky with duty finder players...

[Repulse97]

Omg yes. That's 130 potency. What is SE thinkingggg

[Rangar]

Before this gets any more derailed over mist dragon; a thank you to the devs for putting in better overall fights in general for 4.4. Alphascape, Suzaku, and even the new daily dungeons are going in the right direction in terms of difficulty for the content they're covering.

[Melichoir]

Short of real life disabilities or youre playing on a toaster (it happens), if youre having extreme trouble in content right now but are trying your best, the question that comes up is "Have you been asking questions and seeking out advise?"

Maybe Im cynical, or maybe my own experiences have colored my view of things, but a lot of people who say "Im doing my best/Im trying my hardest" etc arent. They watched a quick video, or skimmed a guide or two, and then go back to playing the game. They dont ask questions of better players, try to understand the mechanics of the class or game, or sit down and practice and hold themselves to a higher standard. The real honest question to ask yourself is "Am I really trying my hardest?" The game is large, how many people join chat servers that have guides and encourage questions and things like that? How many sit down and really practice their rotations and study the guides and try to understand the content?

And I know a general knee-jerk response something along the lines of "WELL, I PLAY CASUAL! I DONT NEED TO BE AN ELITIST!"

Thats fine. You want to play casual, then go for it. Play the game as you want. I know plenty of people who do. But at the same time, dont complain the game is "To Hard" and that youre "Trying your best" when you really arent. I think thats the part that annoys me the most. A lot of people make excuses for being half assed. They want the 'glory' of being good, but dont want to put the effort in doing so. And going back to my opening point, unless you have a disability or a toaster for a computer, putting in effort and practice WILL make you better.

So really, for everyone whos "Doing their best", ask yourselves in all seriousness if you really are. Have you taken the time to practice your class, read guides to their fullest, ask questions from other players to get a better understanding?If not, and you want to be better, then thats where you start. And if youre ok with where youre at, thats cool too. Just make sure when you tell other people youre doing your best, youre telling them "Im doing my best for the amount of effort I want to invest."

[The-Real-Link]

THANK You SE for giving us some dungeons and even a normal raid with some bite to it . Thorough Savage raider here, though granted haven't done Ultimates. But still, while EX primals are indeed a nice challenge, others are correct in that there isn't too much mid-core content here save PoTD / HoH upper floors for sure. While that's not a bad thing, it's nice to see some challenging content!

As a legally blind player who has worked with a team to clear Savage; yes, indeed player skill does have a limit where it is harder to improve. But there also needs to be the will to do so. I'm torn because while I do understand a desire for MSQ to be casual, we are level 70 and two expansions in. I don't think everything should be handed to players. If you're thinking this is hard, I'd still put it on par with above WoW Heroic dungeons, maybe a Mythic 0 early on. Gear will make it a little easier as it always does. I shudder to think if we ever got Mist Dragon in a Mythic+ style of content haha.

But there'll always be backlash. If it wasn't MSQ, then people would say make normal raid harder, or alliance raids harder, or (insert thing) until everything becomes easy, and no one wants that. I understand that all the OP wants to do is MSQ so don't get me wrong, I can understand the argument of being unfairly punished. But at what step do we start holding people's hands slightly less and even provide a modicum of challenge? Having some challenge to the MSQ dungeon makes it great to get through and earned.

[The-Real-Link]

An interesting look back at when WoW: Warlords of Draenor came out, was that Heroic Dungeons (kind of like our Expert) were capped behind reaching a silver or higher rank in a solo trial challenge of sorts. You'd go to the Proving Ground (kind of like Hall of the Novice) but with mobs you had to interrupt, sometimes have particular kill orders in, dodge mechanics - everything that a real dungeon would have more or less). If you couldn't get silver, you were locked from the content. I don't know if it would work here. But boy, I sure knew people in WoW who literally couldn't do silver to save their lives and had others do it for them. But WoW classes are far more varied and generally broken than what XIV has, period.

Hard to say. Putting a requirement in front of people may just make them quit. The capable players will go through it. But it's that middle-ground that's tricky to get. But agreed, some kind of higher difficulty "Hall of the Expert" or a Primal simulation or something would at least help in assisting players with harder mechanics than in dungeons. Create a reward for doing it too and that is at least one method of incentive. That or some awesome solo-challenges would be great.

[HyoMinPark]

Some people praise the vault for having a nice increase difficultly, but I question that when a healer can try MPK a rdm, the healer dies while doing this, and we kill the final boss in the vault with RDM heals. Does that really show difficulty scaling if a healer can goof around and die and still finish the last boss fight?

You forget that all HW dungeons were nerfed when Stormblood came out. The Vault is a shadow of its former self now.

[Liam_Harper]

An interesting look back at when WoW: Warlords of Draenor came out, was that Heroic Dungeons (kind of like our Expert) were capped behind reaching a silver or higher rank in a solo trial challenge of sorts. You'd go to the Proving Ground (kind of like Hall of the Novice) but with mobs you had to interrupt, sometimes have particular kill orders in, dodge mechanics - everything that a real dungeon would have more or less). If you couldn't get silver, you were locked from the content. I don't know if it would work here. But boy, I sure knew people in WoW who literally couldn't do silver to save their lives and had others do it for them. But WoW classes are far more varied and generally broken than what XIV has, period.

It was an interesting experiment. Many claimed their class was unbalanced and it was unfair/impossible on that class and not a true test of player ability. Meanwhile I got the dps Proving Gold as a tank. Silver dps was very basic and you were only locked out from heroic dungeons. Some classes did have it easier than others though and it could have been adjusted a little, but then if you choose a difficult to play class, you should be willing to make the effort to learn to make it moderately effective in group content.

I actually liked the idea, it basically said "you can't step into a harder dungeon unless you're capable of contributing the absolute basic minimum to your group". Which is perfectly fair. What was amazing was the sheer number of players who literally couldn't contribute the basic minimum. So many they had to scrap the idea and continue hoping the skilled players would compensate for them.