Thank you for increased difficulty

[Sigma-Astra]

It is just a game in the long run. People want to relax and have a good time. Most don't find pushing their limits too hard fun or relaxing, they find it stressful instead. It's effort they'd rather save for real life, where it actually matters.

Which I can agree and understand with towards some degree, but what do you do when you've had to explain to the same person five times in a row not to stand somewhere....and they end up standing there every time. At some point, something has to give because no one is having fun when the same person or more is being detrimental towards the rest of the players because of the gap in skill levels.

I can't tell you how many Tsukuyomi EX runs I've been in that we're to start off as fun for me and everyone, but ended up painful because people who claimed to be good couldn't even do basic things.

I want to relax and have fun too and not have my effort go to waste either, :<

[TwistedTea]

Which I can agree and understand with towards some degree, but what do you do when you've had to explain to the same person five times in a row not to stand somewhere....and they end up standing there every time. At some point, something has to give because no one is having fun when the same person or more is being detrimental towards the rest of the players because of the gap in skill levels.

If you end up with someone in the group that can't handle things, then remove them from the group. Be polite about instead of being a jerk but remove them.

I can't tell you how many Tsukuyomi EX runs I've been in that we're to start off as fun for me and everyone, but ended up painful because people who claimed to be good couldn't even do basic things.

I want to relax and have fun too and not have my effort go to waste either, :<

Tsukuyomi Ex is optional content and players should already be aware that expectations are higher in stuff like Extreme Primals. So kicks for non-performance should also be the norm/expected/more frequent.

OP is talking about basic dungeons and some of us are talking about MSQ content. MSQ is not content that's meant to be repeated for those who just want to access the latest non-Expert/non-Extreme/non-Savage content/non-combat content.

MSQ does not prepare people for harder content.

Have advanced versions of the Hall of the Novice:

1. Hall for Extreme Primals
2. Hall of the Raider

And make these difficult enough so that if you can't clear them solo,you don't have access to Extreme Primals, Savage content.

[Sigma-Astra]

Tsukuyomi Ex is optional content and players should already be aware that expectations are higher in stuff like Extreme Primals. So kicks for non-performance should also be the norm/expected/more frequent.

OP is talking about basic dungeons and some of us are talking about MSQ content. MSQ is not content that's meant to be repeated for those who just want to access the latest non-Expert/non-Extreme/non-Savage content/non-combat content.

MSQ does not prepare people for harder content.

Have advanced versions of the Hall of the Novice:

1. Hall for Extreme Primals
2. Hall of the Raider

And make these difficult enough so that if you can't clear them solo,you don't have access to Extreme Primals, Savage content.

Well, the same can be said for basic dungeons as well. If I'm spending my own [X] amount of time inside said dungeon to relax and have fun, then I shouldn't have to deal with a tank/healer/or DPS who wants to watch Netflix instead. I expect anyone walking into Expert roulette to have A) the time to do it B) the patience to do it without multi-tasking and C) knowledge of your job at level 70 with the appropriate gear.

I'm not asking for them to jump through hoops of fire with this. Expert dungeons lose their fun factor when you have less skilled players not taking it or their jobs seriously like the rest of the party might be, and then proceed to waste your time so long as they get to have fun their way.

It's a two-way street, the entire party dictates how the time is spent, not just one person. If the person doesn't want to be judged for their own personal skills, I'd say run with FC members or friends who also agree with that sort of setting and overall mindset.

But, when I queue I expect a basic level of competency in order to have fun, not a "let's just chill and wipe three times because it's just a video game, man".

[TwistedTea]

Well, the same can be said for basic dungeons as well. If I'm spending my own [X] amount of time inside said dungeon to relax and have fun, then I shouldn't have to deal with a tank/healer/or DPS who wants to watch Netflix instead...

...But, when I queue I expect a basic level of competency in order to have fun, not a "let's just chill and wipe three times because it's just a video game, man".

I consider Expert, optional content, as I've previously stated. I think 'Expert' should actually be "Expert" in terms of difficulty; not basic dungeon with higher iLvl requirements.

And just as with the proposed advanced Hall of Extreme Primal/Hall of the Raider, there should be some kind of similar gate before people are permitted to enter Expert content.

Lastly, as I quoted previously, this applies to basic/MSQ dungeons:

If you end up with someone in the group that can't handle things, then remove them from the group. Be polite about instead of being a jerk but remove them.

There's is a system in place to deal with non-performers.

Is it perfect?

No.

But I don't see people using it often enough.

[Sigma-Astra]

I consider Expert, optional content, as I've previously stated. I think 'Expert' should actually be "Expert" in terms of difficulty; not basic dungeon with higher iLvl requirements.

And just as with the proposed advanced Hall of Extreme Primal/Hall of the Raider, there should be some kind of similar gate before people are permitted to enter Expert content.

Lastly, as I quoted previously, this applies to basic/MSQ dungeons:



There's is a system in place to deal with non-performers.

Is it perfect?

No.

But I don't see people using it often enough.

I agree with mostly everything you've said except Expert roulette being considered as optional content, mostly because there's no other way for casuals to grind and get their weekly tomestones if they want to upgrade their gear without going through Savage means.

I'd consider Savage the optional one to be honest since it's a means towards better gear, but you don't necessarily need that gear if you're not going to progress through the tiers themselves or anything harder than Expert Roulette.

[Jojoya]

Which I can agree and understand with towards some degree, but what do you do when you've had to explain to the same person five times in a row not to stand somewhere....and they end up standing there every time. At some point, something has to give because no one is having fun when the same person or more is being detrimental towards the rest of the players because of the gap in skill levels.

I can't tell you how many Tsukuyomi EX runs I've been in that we're to start off as fun for me and everyone, but ended up painful because people who claimed to be good couldn't even do basic things.

I want to relax and have fun too and not have my effort go to waste either, :<

I'm not talking about EX since EX isn't part of the MSQ. They can make EX and Savage as difficult as they want to satisfy the players who want that challenge, and I encourage them to keep doing it. There needs to be something that encourages the players who like to push their limits to keep doing so.

I'm talking about the content that's part of the MSQ. The MSQ gates all new content to the game if only by not allowing you access to the new zones where the new content is located without advancing far enough in the MSQ. You can't cut off a significant portion of the player base by creating mandatory content outside of the difficulty they can handle and retain their interest in the game.

WoW learned that in Cataclysm when the player base hit level cap at the start of the expansion then there was nothing for the average player to do because outside of a handful of dailies, they had turned up the difficulty dial on end game content from 5 to 10 and the majority of their player base had no interest in it. Within a few weeks of launch, they scrambled to seriously nerf Heroic dungeons and a few months later followed suit with Normal T11 raids (I think they had also made some adjustments to Heroic T11 at the same time though not nearly as drastic).

Wildstar learned that by also restricting end game content to hardcore players who wanted extreme difficulty from the start. If they thought their player base would rise to the challenge and learn to get better, they were sadly mistaken. People just quit and never looked back.

I don't want to see that happen to FFXIV. They either need to stop gating access to new zones and the more casual content located there via the MSQ or they need to reconsider how difficult they make the MSQ content. Leave the difficult content outside of the MSQ. A lot of players simply want the chance to experience the story and they'll continue to pay to support the game given that opportunity at level reasonable to the difficulty they can/are wiling to handle. Those players then end up funding the more difficult content that you find relaxing even if they aren't doing it themselves because at least they're getting access to other new content that does appeal to them.

[Hamada]

This wouldn't be an issue if SE just took a page from WoWs book and offered tiered difficulty. You can have story mode (easy mode for story) and a harder mode for people who want more of a challenge.

FFXIV as a whole (outside a few fights) is easy mode. The issue is people are too used to faceroll, so when something new comes out, and suddenly they are not outgearing it, the reaction is "OMG NOT FACEROLL NERF!"

[LauraAdalena]

I'm not talking about EX since EX isn't part of the MSQ. They can make EX and Savage as difficult as they want to satisfy the players who want that challenge, and I encourage them to keep doing it. There needs to be something that encourages the players who like to push their limits to keep doing so.

I'm not going to reply to every one of your comments, but I felt this needed to be said here:

You can't say "I want to encourage players to do better if they want to push themselves, but let players who don't have a place in the game too." That's a very backward shoot-yourself-into-the-foot standpoint. Letting these players have a say in content makes it harder for new players who want to push themselves either want to push themselves, because they won't see the game as hard at all, or to have the skill to do harder content and making it a mountainous climb just to have the skill to do Alphascape Savage V 1.0 or even Suzaku or Byakko. Making content too easy on the MSQ or the Expert dungeons means people who would be the kind to push themselves will not see the game as challenging or fun. Trust me, if I didn't join back when the Dzaemel Darkhold final boss was difficult or when Titan Normal's landslides were bs, I would never have gone into raiding because I never would have pushed myself to be better and learn how to do the fight proper and never learned the feeling of rising to the challenge.