How do you feel about Role Actions?

[Raikai]

As of now it feels way too generic and tasteless compared to the actual job design. Protect, for example... it's just a maintenance buff for the sake of it. Every healer got it no matter what... there's no decision there. I'd rather nerf it a bit and give baseline to one healer, and the other 2 having similar counterparts but with different kinds of defensive.

Imo, the role system could be replaced with a revisioned cross-class comeback.

You could equip or mix and match a set of active and a set of traits that is generated from leveling a class to 15, and 30 respectively. The actives would be a basic toolkit from that class... same for the traits. None of them would be focused into actually affecting the job's performance, but to offer some added utility: (below is just an example! obviously a trait set with mp regen would be req. for many healers out there)

For example, a conjurer active toolkit could make a Monk having access to Cure, Cure 2 and Regen... But then, Monk's MP would need a boost... You'd see amazing MP recovery Thaumaturge cross-class traits, then you choose that one. Bam, you can offheal in a pinch. Wouldn't make for an actual healer... but could mean saving a wipe while they get rezzed.

Or if you want to bring a bit more dps as a scholar... You choose the thaumaturge active toolkit to get some fire and thunder spells. You also pick up the Marauder trait kit and find there some nice defensive passives... There you go, you can now solo stuff more reliably and even contribute with a bit more damage, since your group is too good and you can spare mana to the expensive fire and thunder spells.

I can't really flesh out many details, because that would be a long process, but this idea is to bring back cross class as a form of situational utility or simply QoL for soloing purposes, more or less like in Final Fantasy Tactics. Role actions, the ones that are really vital to the game could be baked into the job's skillpool.

[Kaiten_kenbu]

I dislike having role specific actions.

I wish they went back to the old system of shared class skills...

That way, when I do raids, I can actually choose whether to load out offensively or defensively, regardless of role.

Being able to heal in a pinch, regardless of class is always useful. Having an extra DoT is always a DPS bonus.

[Jonnycbad]

They should do what they do for crafters. At level X, all tanks learn Rampart. At level X all DPS learn Low Blow. There's no equipping them, they're just shared skills.

[Shurrikhan]

They should do what they do for crafters. At level X, all tanks learn Rampart. At level X all DPS learn Low Blow. There's no equipping them, they're just shared skills.

Why make them impossible to integrate cohesively with their job toolkits just to ensure they all have the same name and animation, though, when all classes could -- as they did -- have their own stuns, self-sustain, etc., in their own ways?

[dragonseth07]

They should do what they do for crafters. At level X, all tanks learn Rampart. At level X all DPS learn Low Blow. There's no equipping them, they're just shared skills.

That's basically what the current system is! The only difference is you have to click a check-box for no good reason.

All Tanks learn Rampart at level 8.

[Jandor]

I think I'd prefer a mix of role and cross-class, with the proviso that everyone gets vital kit built in (provoke, diversion, swiftcast, etc.) Have classes get a key skill at 15 and 30 that goes into a role pool and have jobs pull from two role pools.

It'd have to be part of a proper rework of the leveling process though. I think classes should have more abilities earlier on, we'd also probably need a class for Scholar, to keep the amount of classes in each role even.
I'd end classes at 30 too, want more skills, get a job.

So with that in mind, an idea of possible level 15 and level 30 unlockable skills:

Tank role:
Gladiator - Awareness, Tempered Will
Marauder - Convalescence, Anticipation

Healer role:
Conjurer - Lucid Dreaming, Largesse
Librarian - Surecast, Eye for an Eye

Melee DPS role:
Pugilist - Internal Release, Invigorate
Lancer - Second Wind, Bloodbath

Support DPS role:
Rogue - Goad, Feint
Archer - Palisade, Peloton

Caster DPS role:
Thaumaturge - Manaward, Mana Shift
Arcanist - Addle, Apocatastasis

Then, yeah, jobs pulling from two sets. Make it so you have 4 slots, gives you 8 skills to select per job. Anything you want can be achieved by level 30, but I tried to keep them from being proper job killers to miss.

I don't know, I might be trying to make a broken system that most people hated work, I liked it though. I thought it was cool when I first started so I might have a bit of nostalgia for it.
In a game where you can level everything on one character, the idea that leveling extra classes grants you extra skills just makes sense to me.

[Shurrikhan]

I guess one of my main complaints Role Actions being bound within the equipping job's given role isn't nearly as sensible as it might sound. If you're DPS, then why wouldn't you already have the whole of a DPS toolkit? If a healer, then why wouldn't you have the requisite skills before entering any auxiliary system, if such a system is even necessary at all? If there's some function that need be ubiquitous across the role, then the first questions shouldn't include how to toss it into an auxiliary system, but rather whether it belongs at all (Protect, Diversion, Lucid Dreaming, Invigorate) and why it can't be more cohesively included in each job's own toolkit.

If we're to have Role Actions, they should essentially be whatever additional or adapted Skills or Traits allow us, at least for a brief time, to function outside our main role -- i.e. Diversion acting per its namesake, rather than its opposite; Battle Litany being changeable to Hunter's Chance, granting damage-to-health against a target ally; Shadewalker instead cloaking the ally in your visage, stealing its threat; etc., etc..

[Seraphor]

^ Absolutely.

I'm hoping that the Logos system is some sort of trial for new cross role actions to replace the current system, so that the current role actions can be redistributed back into jobs base action set.

[Raikai]

Role actions honestly feel like a feature that had a good premise, but it turned out to be an extremely bland aspect of the jobs.

What I think it would be good, it is a comeback of the cross class system, in a way similar to FF Tactics, where you can specialize in niche roles.

Like... For example, you'd be able to equip one whole "set" of skills and a couple of traits, by choosing from any class you'd have at level 30. The idea would be not to influence with your main role... (A MNK picking the LNC set wouldn't be as benefical to it as going for a CNJ set for example) but to give you utility options for situational cases, or even to make soloing more interesting.

The few really vital Role Actions we have now, like Protect, could just be baked in the basic job's actions.

[Shurrikhan]

Role Actions are like cutting off one person's leg, another's hand, a third's left glute, and then asking each if they'd like a peg leg, hook, or a cushion.

Well, most are hardly significant, so it's more nearly just a small toe, a pinky, and an eye (Lucid Dreaming, Diversion, Provoke), but still... there's not a single advantage to it compared to just letting each job have their own form of each (where they can't afford to be unique in capacity, as Eye for an Eye or Reprisal, etc., probably deserve to be).