How do you feel about Role Actions?

[Seraphor]

Been thinking about how to feed role skills back into jobs, and get rid of them entirely, and so far this is what I've come up with...


TANK SKILLS
Rampart: PLD exclusive and reduce the cooldown.
Anticipation: PLD exclusive.
Reprisal: DRK exclusive and reduce the cooldown, with reprisal giving a 20% dmg reduction, and being upgraded to a 10% 6y aoe with the use of DA.
Convalescence: Becomes DRK exclusive.
Awareness: WAR exclusive, apply to direct hits as well as critical hits, and reduce the cooldown.
Ultimatum: WAR exclusive, also applies a 10% damage reduction debuff like Reprisal.
Low Blow: DRK and WAR ability, but with WAR getting a different name/animation.
Interject: PLD exclusive.
Provoke: WAR ability, with DRK and PLD getting their own versions, Blaspheme and Incite respectively. Blaspheme can be DA’d for additional aggro.
Shirk: WAR ability, with DRK and PLD getting their own versions Malign and Eschew respectively.

Given that most of the Tank skills are different forms of mitigation on varying cooldowns, I thought the simplest way was to simply reduce their cooldowns so each tank only needs to rely on one or two of them instead of juggling the lot. PLD gets shield and parry boost, DRK gets dmg reduction and healing boost, WAR gets two different forms of dmg reduction.
They then get either a stun or a silence, and their own version of Provoke/Shirk.


HEALER SKILLS
Cleric Stance: WHM exclusive, boosted to 10%.
Break: AST exclusive.
Protect: WHM exclusive, buffed to a flat 10% damage reduction buff for 20s, 60s cooldown, making up for WHM lack of mitigation.
Esuna: WHM ability, with SCH/ACH versions being Cleanse/Reverse.
Lucid Dreaming: WHM ability. Arcanist and AST would get similar abilities for refresh, but only WHM would get the enmity reduction. Arcanist would have a longer refresh duration to 28s.
Swiftcast: WHM and BLM exclusive. AST’s Lightspeed gets a cooldown reduction, while SCH gets…
Surecast: Arcanist exclusive, allows for no interruptions, including your own movement (you can move and cast at the same time) and reduces the cast time by 2s. On a shorter cooldown than Swiftcast.
Eye for an Eye: Arcanist exclusive.
Largesse: AST exclusive, with the Sect buffs reduced from 10/15% to 5/10%.
Rescue: SCH exclusive.

The three healers regain some more unique utility with these redistributions, with AST getting Break back plus a potency booster, SCH getting a return dmg and Rescue, and WHM regaining Protect and Cleric Stance as a dps booster.
The main difference here is with Swiftcast, as you’ll notice that AST and SCH get inferior versions. To coincide, all raising spells have their cast times reduced from 8s to 5s, thus making a Lightspeed+Ascend a 2.5s cast, and Surecast+Resurrect a 3s cast with invulnerability. I don’t think this would be game-breaking, and would make hardcasting a raise more viable, but would serve to give WHM an edge in one respect above the other two healers.


CASTER SKILLS
Addle: BLM exclusive.
Break: Gone (AST exclusive)
Drain: Arcanist exclusive.
Diversion: They all get this, but with a different moniker for each job, Pacify for SMN, Doppelgang for BLM and Passe for RDM.
Lucid Dreaming: Given to WHM, Arcanist gets a similar ability as mentioned, RDM also gains a similar ability, and this effect is bundled in with Leylines for BLM.
Mana Shift: BLM exclusive.
Apocatastasis: Arcanist exclusive.
Surecast: Arcanist exclusive, allows for no interruptions, including your own movement (you can move and cast at the same time) and reduces the cast time by 2s. On a shorter cooldown than Swiftcast.
Swiftcast: WHM and BLM exclusive.
Erase: RDM exclusive.

No one really loses much here, but it does give BLM an edge over the others without giving it additional utility.
Casters don’t really use Break, Drain or Erase, only BLM’s really use Mana Shift but they also gain exclusive use of Addle as a perk above the others.
As with SCH, SMN gets Surecast over Swiftcast, and RDM gets Dualcast anyway.


RANGED DPS SKILLS
Second Wind: All jobs get this, all of them.
Invigorate: Again, all jobs get this, but it also refills some MP as well.
Foot/Arm Graze: MCH exclusives (Bind and Stun)
Head/Leg Graze: BRD exclusives (Heavy and Silence)
Peloton: Both still get this.
Refresh, Tactician and Palisade: BRD exclusives.

You’ll notice MCH loses its support DPS identity and would instead become a debuffer with the addition/adjustment of the following skills:
Hot Shot: Inflicts Piercing debuff for 10s, cooldown 20s.
Grazing Shot: Inflicts Slashing debuff for 10s, cooldown 20s.
Buck Shot: Inflicts Blunt debuff for 10s, cooldown 20s.
Hypercharge: Causes turret attacks to inflict a 10% defence debuff, AND a 10% damage debuff.


MELEE DPS SKILLS
Second Wind: All jobs get this, all of them.
Invigorate: Again, all jobs get this, but it also refills some MP as well.
Bloodbath: DRG exclusive.
Leg Sweep: MNK exclusive, but NIN gets a similar ability.
Goad: MNK exclusive.
Crutch: MNK exclusive, but also applies to Paralysis.
True North: MNK exclusive.
Feint: NIN exclusive.
Arms Length: SAM exclusive.
Diversion: becomes DRG exclusive, SAM gets a similar ability. MNK instead gets an enmity reducing effect bundled in with Riddle of Earth. While NIN’s Smoke Screen can be used on itself for half of its effect.

Bloodbath enhances DRG’s identity and gives it added survivability compared to the others given it’s… vulnerabilities.
MNK is the real beneficiary here as it gains the close combat moves and party utility, while NIN gets the debuffing skills.
This would in some ways make MNK a sort of support melee DPS, with NIN being the debuffer, like the BRD/MCH split.
MNK also gets exclusive use of True North as it’s by far the biggest victim of positionals, NIN only really cares about Trick Attack/Slashing, and both are Rear which is easier to hit than the flank.

As for Second Wind and Invigorate, they’re pretty much equivalent to potions, and it would be helpful for newbies of any class to have access to a free potion and MP/TP regen. Basically everyone starting out will get their first Weaponskill/Spell, Second Wind, and Invigorate as their starting skills.

[Dualgunner]

No one really loses much here, but it does give BLM an edge over the others without giving it additional utility.
Casters don’t really use Break, Drain or Erase, only BLM’s really use Mana Shift but they also gain exclusive use of Addle as a perk above the others.
As with SCH, SMN gets Surecast over Swiftcast, and RDM gets Dualcast anyway.

"RDM gets dualcast anyway."

Okay, sure; we do get a free cast of movement after every cast. As it is though, Swift is a very important skill in RDM's kit for a few reasons:

Shift the cast to dualcast period:
Going back to "free period of movement after every cast", there comes the fact we need that first cast to go off. Swiftcast can be used to shift what 2 seconds we'll be casting vs what 2 seconds we won't be while preserving ABC; it can help avoid sticky problems like having interrupted casts (and because it's a dual cast, if you miss one cast you've now missed two) due to heavy mechanics.

Snap Movement:
RDM has none. SMN can Ruin 2/4 and move on a whim. In this scenario, BLM has its swiftcast. RDM uses Swift for snap movement, or for extended movement (cast+dual+swift). Take that away and you're restricting RDM's mobility for no reason.

Extra strong spell during a burst window:
Doesn't seem like much but fitting an extra veraero in during Trick is an extra 31 potency.

Part of RDM's actual burst rotation:
And finally, it would affect RDM's rotation at the base level because Swift is used in the rotation at a few points: to get a double verfinisher under one embolden, it's a startlingly important tool. To get an extra veraero in under embolden before the next tick wears the buff down further. If Swift were just taken away from RDM, it would need something to compensate the loss of an extremely important tool to its kit.

[Shurrikhan]

Part of RDM's actual burst rotation:
And finally, it would affect RDM's rotation at the base level because Swift is used in the rotation at a few points: to get a double verfinisher under one embolden, it's a startlingly important tool. To get an extra veraero in under embolden before the next tick wears the buff down further. If Swift were just taken away from RDM, it would need something to compensate the loss of an extremely important tool to its kit.

Agreed. It would be similar to Monk losing control over its stance timings otherwise, apparently irrelevant to SE, but the loss of a core mechanic to any mediocre or better player.

I would hope something would be done with the Acceleration tool, allowing it to be say, a jack-of-all-needs resource between cooldown reduction, a proc guarantee, and cast-time negation.

[Dualgunner]

Agreed. It would be similar to Monk losing control over its stance timings otherwise, apparently irrelevant to SE, but the loss of a core mechanic to any mediocre or better player.

I would hope something would be done with the Acceleration tool, allowing it to be say, a jack-of-all-needs resource between cooldown reduction, a proc guarantee, and cast-time negation.

Making Acceleration work like that would honestly be really cool. If that change accompanied the loss of Swift I wouldn't mind it too much, it creates more tactical decisions to make in combat.

[Grimoire-M]

To be honest I don't mind the role system as it is. Yes there are balance concerns, but the system itself should remain in place to cut out a lot of the chaff. A lot of otherwise useless/situational buttons should go here, and we should aim to minimize the number of core abilities present in there. I would like to see role traits added next expansion, and be exclusive to some classes in order to buff these skills, if that class relies on them. Absolutely, stuff like Rampart, Refresh, and Lucid Dreaming is a problem, but stuff like Swiftcast, protect, esuna, and the crowd control/knockback immunity skills is why this system should exist in the first place.

I feel the main problem with MCH/BRD is Refresh/Tactician are both AoE and Mana Shift is complete utter trash. I'd like to see these skills all reworked to be less required. These TP/MP regen effects (whether for yourself or allies) should be around the level of Goa. Useful during prog when someone dies, but not required once you know a fight. Higher cooldowns on the Role Actions in general would support that idea. Especially Refresh/Tactician. They should be on the level of Hallowed Ground if they're going to keep that ridiculous AoE effect. The MP generation that's baked into the healer and caster classes should be improved to meet what they need baseline to operate effectively without a death. I'd definitely argue to remove lucid entirely and give all of those classes better forms of personal MP regeneration again (except BLM cause they'll live without it).

On the subject of aggro, however...I'm a little torn. I feel like the DPS stances on tanks should reduce their aggro generation (for DRK maybe taking off grit would dump 25% of it instead) and tank stances should either have a lower DPS penalty or none at all. Provoke and Ultimatum are absolutely fine. However, I'm not sure if Shirk should stay. In general I'd like to see tanks have to care about aggro or at least stance swapping more next expansion and part of facilitating that might require Circle Shirking to be removed, but I also understand that off-tank mains need something to do. It's one of those things that SE has to alter their savage raid design to address first and foremost.

For melee Shadewalker may need to replace Diversion, or be removed. It's the same issue as Shirk really. BRD/MCH should get Diversion instead of needing to use Tactician/Refresh to dump their aggro. Diversion is honestly the best skill for this as it stands. You could easily give it the half-aggro dump that Lucid has and it would be fine for every DPS class. I'd apply that to Shadewalker too. NIN can keep smokescreen if another melee gets a way to help out with aggro but honestly the only class that 100% cares about it on a regular basis atm is WHM. WHM should get its own aggro dump tool. Thin Air should apply Diversion to them for its duration 100%. My concern with Shadewalker specifically is mainly due to how Exdeath required it to be comfortable in some cases. Maybe tanks just need an emnity modifier on their basic attack that leads into all of their combos, just to help out a bit in that situation.

I feel the same way about healers that I do tanks to be honest. There should be more tradeoffs between damage and healing, though not as much as tanks need it as reducing the tank/healer dps gap would be better for the game overall. Old Cleric did amazing things for them in that regard. I feel that can't be addressed by the role actions however, rather their base kits should get a lot more damage added to them without pushing on their MP. I'd probably improve the current Cleric Stance instead to help with this. Largesse should really be baked into each Healer's kit in some unique way. Divine Seal was fine. Synastry was not. Dissipation still is, but stacking Largesse with it is not.

[Kabooa]

"Surecast is Arcanist exclusive"

Really, the one caster class that has the least punishment for downgrading to their available instant cast spells to deal with forced movement?

[Seraphor]

"Surecast is Arcanist exclusive"

Really, the one caster class that has the least punishment for downgrading to their available instant cast spells to deal with forced movement?

Could swap it with Swiftcast, both aren't needed, but I felt WHM and BLM deserved the better option.

[Kabooa]

Could swap it with Swiftcast, both aren't needed, but I felt WHM and BLM deserved the better option.

Swiftcast is utilized to deal with movement. This is notably different than -forced- movement. It's not that you need to move, it's that you're -going- to move. That's what Surecast is for, for Black Mages, and arguably white mages / any other caster who has a huge (Re: Almost 60-80% potency) loss because there's a knock back, outside where you have to be because Chaos.

So you're effectively removing a needed tool, that was originally Black Mages to start with.

[PangTong]

Considering they've increased the limit for role actions to 10, allowing you to take all of them and effectively rendering the entire system meaningless, I presume they are planning to either remove, replace or at least significantly reconfigure the system in 5.0

The basic idea of the system is fine, I think. However it seems as though the devs could not decide whether the intention of the system was to provide basic, universal skills that are required for all jobs within that role (such as Provoke), or whether it was intended to give a small amount of customization to your ability loadout. The end result is that there are many role actions which are effectively mandatory, and (assuming the previous action limit of 5) once you've gotten those then you really only had maybe 1 (2 at best) more slots to choose from among the more "optional" actions. Some of those optional actions were pretty cool and offered a compelling choice, others are just straight up useless.

There's also the issue where it felt as though several jobs had their exclusive abilities pilfered to serve the role action system. White Mage in particular lost a LOT and the job's basic kit is now very barebones. While personally it doesn't really bother me, a lot of people do get attached to their job's exclusive abilities and losing them makes the job feel less complete even if they can sort of get them back through role actions.

Personally my thoughts are, if you're acknowledging that certain skills are mandatory for certain roles, just give them those skills. Don't give the illusion of choice or make them go through some funny extra system which makes it look like you have a choice when you really don't. They understood that Raise skills are important enough for each healer to have one natively, but apparently didn't think the same was true for Esuna or Protect.

If they want to improve or change the system for the next expansion, they should really just give the mandatory skills away for free and focus on offering optional choices that are more compelling. Ideally, the system would not be "cross-role actions" at all, but rather every job would have a set of optional actions unique to them. That would allow for the addition of actions which affect each job specifically, functioning essentially like a talent/spec system.

[Duskane]

should just make the Slash/pierce/blunt res a role skills
generally if you have a Drg you don't need to use the skill but if there is no Drg the Mch doesn't lose out on much