How do you feel about Role Actions?

[DRKoftheAzure]

I'm still of the opinion 1.0 had it right and we should be able to do ANYTHING.

You're a 1.0 player...? What was the cross class system like in 1.0?

[Shurrikhan]

You're a 1.0 player...? What was the cross class system like in 1.0?

Though flawed in execution (poor of damage type synergies, too few underlying systemic depth -- much like now -- and skill imbalance among highly similar flavors of a given geometry, i.e. melee circular AoE), in 1.0, you only had one true level, your own. Classes existed only to learn skills from and improve weapon proficiencies, and the vast majority those skills were then available on any weapon. The idea was that you create your own job from the vast toolkit your experiences provide, whatever their source.

The concept was apologized out of existence when Yoshida took the reins.

[Kabooa]

The concept was apologized out of existence when Yoshida took the reins.

Open Skill systems are notoriously hard to balance, and without hitting the unicorn mark for diversity, strength, and limitation, cause more problems than they're worth most of the time.

While they are my favorite sort of system as they allow for incredible build diversity, "Build Diversity" is often just a label for "wrong choice", and it's no surprise we see even the more streamlined versions of these systems fade away with time. (Talent Trees are the most contemporary comparison.)

[Shurrikhan]

Open Skill systems are notoriously hard to balance, and without hitting the unicorn mark for diversity, strength, and limitation, cause more problems than they're worth most of the time.

While they are my favorite sort of system as they allow for incredible build diversity, "Build Diversity" is often just a label for "wrong choice", and it's no surprise we see even the more streamlined versions of these systems fade away with time. (Talent Trees are the most contemporary comparison.)

If referring to WoW, specifically, rather than Rift or the like, I feel I should point out that the combination of 71 different talent tree point allotments, into 3-6 mostly optimal builds per spec, back in Wrath was usually more tightly balanced within each spec (especially until insane ArP, Crit, or Haste percentiles) than Mists-and-beyond talent grids.

Which should probably be expected. Talent grids didn't shrink down on potential combinations as formed by their significant differences: they allowed for more of them. They stood primarily as a way to readjust base vs. optional toolkits, and the result was reduced control of capacity (where less gameplay significant) more so than flavor (where even directing button count and button-flow).

That's not a choice-reduction form of streamlining. That's merely taking firmer control over the unique capacities of each spec in the interest of spec diversity. As of Mists, one could not play a Warrior. They could play Arms, Fury, or Protection. The sum of their experiences alone, and only if playing all specs, would then be a Warrior. But since then it hasn't been a thing you actually play or tailor a toolkit from; you play its derivatives only.

What changed as a result, ultimately, is the view of what customization should be. In Vanilla, talents were sold as interactions and exploration. By BC, they were already being seen by players (anyone who interacted with raiders or serious PvPers, themselves, raided or PvPed) almost solely as capacity adjustments. On the first side the purpose is primarily role-play. On the other, it's derivative performance: I can outperform you because I better understand this menu system that's not itself part of combat, but influences combat, sometimes more even than our in-combat decisions.

You can probably glean from my tone that I don't have a particularly high opinion of customization as a gameplay-deriving system. I detest having to swap talents between pulls just as surely as I detest gear swaps. I detest the information scarcity that often occurs with such a system, at best due to their intricacies of tuning among competing choices (procs per minute or rolling normalizations), but often for reasons... less warranting sympathy. I detest the "standard" or "fight-specific" choices.

And yet even then, I would have to disagree that build diversity necessarily equates to obligatory choice-swapping (my trigger word) or "wrong choice" (the standard buzz word), simply because there have actually been talent grid rows and talent tree builds that haven't run into any of those issues. They've performed incredibly closely, providing new optimal means of play without one new playflow outperforming another, or demanding a little less from the player, but also giving only a little less. It HAS worked. It's just damn hard. It dies in execution, not concept or as a fatalistic rule of thumb.

Nonetheless, I would have to argue that there's little sense in employing an open skill system except in incredibly rare environments. In my opinion, the game with the ideal fit for an open skill system shouldn't even involve sub-menus in its use, and likely no cap to level or stats or any of that. It would require a different way to taper off power growth, and beyond that -- may the equilibrium of most skilled/intelligent and dogged player win. It's fine in such a game to have a Guts-esque character who everyone knows because he or she is just that damn powerful, or a relative rookie who slaughters hardcore players because he's just that good. Short of that, I wouldn't personally prefer that kind of system. But it's not something dead on arrival any more than any other system would be. To sustain anything, it has to be built strongly, fleshed out, and polished well. It's a bigger task with an open skill system than a MOBA-esque or classes-only as per current XIV, but it's not fundamentally impossible.

[Sandpark]

Though flawed in execution (poor of damage type synergies, too few underlying systemic depth -- much like now -- and skill imbalance among highly similar flavors of a given geometry, i.e. melee circular AoE), in 1.0, you only had one true level, your own. Classes existed only to learn skills from and improve weapon proficiencies, and the vast majority those skills were then available on any weapon. The idea was that you create your own job from the vast toolkit your experiences provide, whatever their source.

The concept was apologized out of existence when Yoshida took the reins.

One true level or no levels.
Hate that you have to slog through mountains of content to play with friends?
Worried older content and zones become outdated?
Dislike the rigidity of a job only system?
Can't play with a friend starting later because you are too high level?

No levels would cure that, sure a global level sync could work like in Elder Scrolls Online or Guild Wars 2 but it adds more work and still leaves a wide gap between noobie and veteran.

FFXI had a strict job system but subjobs opened up customization though somewhat limited. ESO allows customization in that you can equip any weapon to learn skills. ESO then allows Champion Points to strengthen global attributes, but by nature it separates noobie and vet and had to get a CP cap.

XIV 1.0 had a good though misunderstood foundation. Players did not like having to level multiple classes and wanted more identity enter jobs. Well now some players don't like the rigidity or dislike that the customization we have is bare bones.

I believe the foundation was to start off really open to learning skills. Then at a later time, advanced jobs and traits would come in at a later expansion to add identity if it had more time to cook in the oven.

But those days are gone, we have what we have.

[Acidblood]

It was a nice idea in theory (at least compared to cross-class), but horribly implemented due to the mix of 'must-have' and 'next-to-useless' abilities (to say nothing of the stripping of certain jobs only for them to have to buy everything back) ... and ultimately, even now that we can select all 10 (wasn’t this supposed to reduce button bloat?), still does more harm than good...

How so?

1. By making an ability 'cross-role' it means that all jobs of the role have access to it, and by extension must then be balanced around it...
Lucid Dreaming for example, is accessible to all healers and caster DPS, which then forces (for balance reasons) their other forms of MP regeneration to be weaker (than it otherwise would have been), or in the case of RDM, non-existent... and just to make it worse, because Lucid Dreaming is also an enmity drop, but otherwise of little use to BLM, BLM (or any other caster for that matter) cannot now be given their own (more useful and job fitting) enmity drop.

2. All 'similar' Jobs are forced to have the same identity...
BRD and MCH are probably the best example of this… i.e. because BRD is a 'support', with cross-roles for group MP and TP regen, MCH (and any future 'ranged DPS' jobs) are now forced to adopt this ‘support’ identity… and, flipping it around, RDM, which should arguably also be a ‘support’, cannot adopt this identity (or at least not in the same way as BRD) because it is instead a ‘caster DPS’, and it wouldn’t make sense for the likes of BLM, or even SMN, to be given too many support abilities.

3. It makes it harder to balance individual jobs...
One example of this is Low Blow (Tank Stun), which in HW belonged only to DRK and WAR, and had a modest cooldown of 15s (IIRC)…. now that it is a cross-role though it needs to have a longer cooldown (of 25s) lest PLD, who also has Shield Bash, become a crazy OP stun machine... similarly, Reprisal, with it’s now 60s cooldown, can't be made any more powerful for DRK (to give it some needed party mitigation) because then WAR and PLD would also benefit (and no, giving DRK a trait for Reprisal is a terrible idea, because now you have 2 version of Reprisal, in which case why is it even cross-role to begin with?).

4. It robs jobs of what could otherwise be unique utility...
Reprisal would be a direct example of this from HW > SB, but so would new utilities such as Mana Shift... e.g. if Mana Shift were BLM only (and possibly buffed a bit) then it could at least be used as some argument to bring a BLM over a SMN / RDM for raid progression (i.e. more MP for healers)... but because SMN and RDM also have Mana Shift, and (instant) Raise (at half the cooldown, or less) BLM is again left out.

So yeah, IMO cross-role should just be outright deleted and the jobs given back their individual abilities (even if they are exact clones; seriously who cares?), because at least that way jobs can have unique and interesting mechanics / utility, fit their identities properly, and be individually fine-tuned.

NB. And if they want to do customisation in future (which would be nice), it should be done at the individual job level (e.g. selectable traits).

[Seraphor]

Completely agree Acidblood, I really hope the job reworks in 5.0 are about feeding the role skills back into their respective jobs.

[XiXiQ]

at this stage they are 10 more buttons we can do without, dump the whole idea. There as some useful skills in there that can be made part of the job's toolkit instead.

[Jonnycbad]

DRK lost their "Low Blow" (the kick animation oGCD DMG+Stun) and received the ROLE ACTION "low blow", which is just a new weapon swing animation.

DRG lost their "Leg Sweep" (weapon swing animation) and got the ROLE ACTION "Leg Sweep" which is a kick animation from DRK's orignial "Low Blow".

It bothers the heck out of me because DRK having the kick is part of what made them edgy. Secondly, having an attack called "Leg Sweep" but it's actually a FORWARD kick to the chest-level of a humanoid enemy bothers the hell out of me.

[Connor]

They were a nice idea that unfortunately was only half-baked.

Having a selection of skills you can take based on your role sounds fun, especially if you have a choice of what to take.

But since they increased the skill slot amount to 10 (and there only 10 abilities lol), it’s less of a choice and more of a set of skills that you absolutely need to take

Edit:
Also, all role skills are either entirely required (Swiftcast, Refresh, Lucid Dreaming) or entirely useless (Break, Drain, all the CC skills for ranged)