Escalating skill requirements & FFXIV future

[HyoMinPark]

I350 is completly fine for the msq. These quests are designed that even undergeared players, which is not even the case with i350, can do it.

Seconded this. Even the new normal mode 8-man raids have introductory item level requirements of i350/i355. I'm an i362 AST and have healed the two hardest floors (v11 and v12), and only ran into issues with MP because of multiple deaths. Other than that, healing wasn't hard. DPS even less so.

[Vidu]

I suggest having difficulty option at start of fight like some single player games. Easy, Normal, Hard, and Very Hard. Granted I would probably end up choosing Easy every time to get it over with.

What about dungeons involved in the MSQ? They ask nothing more of you than this solo-quest did - know your base-rotation and dodge AoEs. They just give you three people to potentially carry you...

I'm sorry if I'm rude here, specially towards people who have a legit reason to really struggle with those fights, but... I consider it highly unfair and rude to sort of expect three other people to clean up your mess because you're not intrested in improving your skill and/or gear. This isnt directed at you personally, Dirwen, more a "thought experiment".
Personally I'm of the opinion that we need more mildly challenging solo-duties so that people realise they need to improve and can do that in the process. Yes, I think dungeons - the moment, its NOT a solo-duty anymore - should be gated behind said solo-duties in which people prove that they have basic skills, like their rotation down and moving out of AoEs.
When me and my friends did The Burn on tuesday we got a bard with an ilvl300 weapon and no clue how to play their class (also no reaction in party-chat, so we kicked them after the 5 minutes had passed). That is just... not okay and shows nothing but a lack of courtesy for your fellow players - after all this isnt a solo-game and the courtesy I'm asking for is very low level: Have proper gear and an idea of what you're doing at level 70.

Setting solo-duties to "Easy" instead of improving when you eventually have to play with other people again isnt really helpful...

I wouldnt mind seeing a "challenge mode" for certain solo-duties though!
...but yeah, as an answer to Kirsten questions I feel this fails right at the moment you think of group-content asking the same of you as the solo-duties do. You're robbing yourself of a needed learning experience when you dumb those solo-duties down if you cant clear them in the difficulty thats present right now. And once you're in group-content you cant just put on "Easy" anymore and have half the AoEs disappear and stuff only hit half as hard.

[Kirsten_Rev]

I suggest having difficulty option at start of fight like some single player games. Easy, Normal, Hard, and Very Hard. Granted I would probably end up choosing Easy every time to get it over with.

It's an interesting idea, but I still don't think it fully handles the issue. Let me elaborate a bit more.

The MSQ is not intended to be fully accessible content. I believe Yoshi-P has said as much himself, though I've no desire to hunt down the exact quote. It is intended to be on the easier side of the content spectrum, but it's also intended to build player skill, serve as a bridge into harder, non-MSQ content, and provide incentive to improve gear. In other words, the MSQ is the fail-safe that ensures virtually everyone at level 70 has moved past the stock level 70 gear provided at the end of 4.0.

So with this in mind, even with difficulty settings, the easiest would have to push players to some extent. I'm curious as to the OP's thoughts - and yours - on what that point should be. Me personally, I think providing a challenge when someone is 30 iLevels below the entry-level gear introduced alongside the content in question is reasonable.

I350 is completly fine for the msq. These quests are designed that even undergeared players, which is not even the case with i350, can do it.

I'm aware, but by the standards of the typical MSQ instance, these are a bit more challenging, in my opinion. I certainly didn't find them at all rough, but I can see where some people might.

[MomomiMomi]

Seriously though, how did you get through Return of the Bull but have trouble with this one?

[SugarPuff]

I haven't progressed that far in the msq so I can't comment on that specific battle but at times I've felt the same, as far as having hit the limit of my capabilities. Maybe I already have and get through with my husband's support, because he's naturally more adept at anything that requires quick reflexes. I struggle to process what's happening on my screen in time to react appropriately. My enjoyment of the game is primarily the immersive environment, but the msq happens to be an extension of that.
Anyway, mainly I just stopped in to say that as someone who often feels frustrated because knowing what I'm supposed to react to and actually accomplishing it are two different skills, I can relate.

[Ilan]

I'm aware, but by the standards of the typical MSQ instance, these are a bit more challenging, in my opinion. I certainly didn't find them at all rough, but I can see where some people might.

Honestly i didn't find them more challenging than tataru ex or the alphinaud thing. Also the fight with zenos (where you couldn't beat him at all) was way more challenging than this and i didn't see people complain there.
If this quest is to hard for someone, he/she should rethink their strategy and try something else.

[Kirsten_Rev]

I haven't progressed that far in the msq so I can't comment on that specific battle but at times I've felt the same, as far as having hit the limit of my capabilities. Maybe I already have and get through with my husband's support, because he's naturally more adept at anything that requires quick reflexes. I struggle to process what's happening on my screen in time to react appropriately. My enjoyment of the game is primarily the immersive environment, but the msq happens to be an extension of that.
Anyway, mainly I just stopped in to say that as someone who often feels frustrated because knowing what I'm supposed to react to and actually accomplishing it are two different skills, I can relate.

You will get better at it with time and practice. I definitely fell into the same boat when I was first starting out, and now most of it is second-nature. Which, of course, is exactly why the MSQ, alongside other pieces of content, is designed to constantly expose you to basic mechanics.

[silentwindfr]

the trouble with the will of the moon is most people that fail it, don't fail because of capacity, but by lack of knowledge.
not knowing them cycle, not knowing how use correctly them skill, not knowing how deal with aoe and add.....

do it means this people are bad player? not really, simply until now they had no way to test them mettle against hard content, because this player generally don't do savage. and that something that was pointed loooong ago.... the lack of true midcore content have create a huge wall between casual and raider that try really to beat the hard content. because they have the expert and the normal dungeon that are super easy, the raid 24 that can be carried by 2/3 of the raid and that all, you directly jump to primal and savage mode....

even the normal raid is not that hard...

it was asked over and over and over to add a true challenging content for 4 player that will serve as midcore plateform for allowing player to learn all about them class. serving as bridge between raider and casual player, creating a learning curve more smooth.... than the one we have here, it's not asking to handle reward, it's ask for a place where to teste our mettle and knowledge against challenge that will come between expert and raid.

because for me jump from easy content at 4 into hard content at 8 without training is what make a lot of player struggle. and soo far, no content was really tailored for this goal.... and it's a shame, we are in the 6th years since the release of ARR and we still don't have this missing part of the content... for a time i had hoped for the deep dungeon to fill this role, but in the end, it fail too.... yes the new deep dungeon can be hard, but mostly because of the random of the chest, if you don't get the right pomander you can be screwed severly.

we need a content that will serve a training ground, as a place for earn new reward and experience for allows more player to jump to savage... and if they really don't want to jump into savage, it will give raider and casual player a place for do another activity.

[Kirsten_Rev]

we need a content that will serve a training ground, as a place for earn new reward and experience for allows more player to jump to savage... and if they really don't want to jump into savage, it will give raider and casual player a place for do another activity.

Agreed, but I think your point is unrelated to this thread. Will of the Moon has two parts. The first isn't any more demanding than a number of other fights we've had, and boils down to the same basic message of "stay out of AoE and kill as fast as you can" that literally every piece of instanced content in this game uses (be they solo instances or otherwise). The second part is a bit more challenging for people who haven't played a healer before - particularly given that MP management is somewhat relevant, and the fight starts quite quickly - but again, there's nothing fancy about the AoE that hasn't been seen before. Honestly, the worst part of the entire mission is probably that both instances are strung together, and are not especially short, causing unnecessary frustration if you're struggling with the second part in particular.

In short, for players who are struggling with it, there's almost certainly an ability or gear gap playing the villain, not a knowledge one. It's more difficult than normal for solo instances, at least in my opinion (I know you disagree here, Ilan), but it doesn't hold a candle to group-based content the MSQ has pushed us through. The knowledge is there.

[AppleJinx]

More gate keeping the better, if you can even call solo msq trials that since you can get a billion percent echo and eventually one shot it if you fail enough times. I definitely want less bad/lazy players in the future where me and the rest of the party have to do extra work because people doesn't want to carry their own weight.