Escalating skill requirements & FFXIV future

[Bourne_Endeavor]

...whenever I see a thread like this I wonder how people (like this) get past solo-games that involve any kind of combat. Do they just cheat their way through bossfights? Does every game offers a "skip this one"-option now? I've never heard of a solo-game being adjusted because people cried about it being to difficult...

And I'm saying that as someone whos mostly sticking to non-action games because I'm not that great at them.

...and as someone who had to do the Efrye-fight on the airship in FFX like 5 or 6 times because I just couldnt do it. And I know thats not action but strategy, but I looked at what I was doing, thought about what I could be doing better and finally got through it - I guess most people just dont wanna do that... probably need more games like Life is Strange - interactive movies rather than actual games.

In a lot of cases, they either massively overlevel the content or quit. Since you brought up FFX, you can trivialize everything with some grinding, Blitzball or tossing Yuna into Auron's grid. With Aeons tied to Yuna's stats, they do absurdly high damage if she has high STR. Sadly, plenty of people like this just quit entirely because "it's too hard!!!!" It's why we keep seeing games get easier and easier.

That being said, Life is Strange is amazing. Not much in terms of gameplay, I agree, but still amazing.

[Vidu]

In a lot of cases, they either massively overlevel the content or quit. Since you brought up FFX, you can trivialize everything with some grinding, Blitzball or tossing Yuna into Auron's grid. With Aeons tied to Yuna's stats, they do absurdly high damage if she has high STR. Sadly, plenty of people like this just quit entirely because "it's too hard!!!!" It's why we keep seeing games get easier and easier.

That being said, Life is Strange is amazing. Not much in terms of gameplay, I agree, but still amazing.

I know this is totally offtopic, but I failed that fight BECAUSE you dont have Yuna there and I was used to throwing Aeons at everything - nice wake up call to finally figure out what to do with the other characters, actually! (Just how certain duties in FFXIV might be a nice wake up call to figure out what the other 90% of your buttons do...)

And yes, Life is Strange is a great game, I loved it! Picked it precisely for evenings/times when I dont want to pay an aweful lot of attention to mechanics or reaction-times. I enjoy Point-and-Click-Adventures for the same reason (and I can recommend The Book of Unwritten Tales in this context!) which is why it baffles me so much when people pick games with gameplay that they dont seem to enjoy enough to actually care about it...

[Keerith]

I really enjoyed the encounter, by far one of my favorite MSQ duties to date. You really should try not standing in the easily avoidable AoEs; I don't think I was clipped by a single one, and I'm hardly a top tier player at all. I understand not everyone does the casual raids or EX dungeons and so they might be behind on gear, but I haven't ran into a single quest fight that was Extreme/Savage tier difficulty.

[Annah]

this wasnt a hard fight at all tho. I dont understand this.

He's been playing MMOs since 2000? No way. Not to rain on the guy's parade, but my 11-year daughter also has a FFXIV account. She beat it too. It took her two tries for the girl and did it on her first try as Y'Shtola. And she doesn't have the best hand-eye coordination.

This fight was nowhere near hard. Are we talking about the same fight? In Azime Steppes for the 4.4 patch? With little Sun?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I just had a RDM in O11N who used Jolt II, Impact, and Scatter almost exclusively.. Yes I said scatter, yes there are no aoe targets in O11N...

Some people in this game just don't even try.

We had to vote abandon after half an hour.

[Dirwen]

I'm fine as long as SE doesn't add any jumping puzzle requirements in MSQ. The seasonal summer event with the jumping puzzle was evil and it made me gave up getting the swimsuit.

[Kirsten_Rev]

I've been playing MMOs since 2000. At this point in FFXIV, I don't see a future for myself in this game. The level of gameplay skill required JUST to get through the MSQ is fast approaching the limits of my capabilities.

Bard main, i350 - & I can NOT get through The Will of the Moon (just the part where I still get to play my own class, never mind the part where I would be forced to play as another).

At what point does a dev team recognize that continually boosting 'challenge' in _required_ content will eventually drive away part of their player base? I've already quit GW2 for exactly this issue - I couldn't complete the main story quests.

That last instance was a bit tougher than others (and certainly more frustrating if you're struggling, given that failing the second part means repeating the first), but I don't personally have an issue with an i350-equipped player having trouble with the MSQ at this stage in the expansion. The base iLevel of gear introduced alongside the MSQ is i380 - a massive upgrade - and the instance in question doesn't block access to any of the gear (unlike the last debatable fight I can recall, Shinryu).

May I ask how you'd suggest SE make content mostly-easy for an i350 without making it completely boring for people at higher gear levels? I mean, suppose for the sake of argument you were i330 and struggling, or i300: to what level of gear do you think SE should balance content like this?

[Dirwen]

May I ask how you'd suggest SE make content mostly-easy for an i350 without making it completely boring for people at higher gear levels? I mean, suppose for the sake of argument you were i330 and struggling, or i300: to what level of gear do you think SE should balance content like this?

I suggest having difficulty option at start of fight like some single player games. Easy, Normal, Hard, and Very Hard. Granted I would probably end up choosing Easy every time to get it over with.

[Vidu]

I suggest having difficulty option at start of fight like some single player games. Easy, Normal, Hard, and Very Hard. Granted I would probably end up choosing Easy every time to get it over with.

What about dungeons involved in the MSQ? They ask nothing more of you than this solo-quest did - know your base-rotation and dodge AoEs. They just give you three people to potentially carry you...

I'm sorry if I'm rude here, specially towards people who have a legit reason to really struggle with those fights, but... I consider it highly unfair and rude to sort of expect three other people to clean up your mess because you're not intrested in improving your skill and/or gear. This isnt directed at you personally, Dirwen, more a "thought experiment".
Personally I'm of the opinion that we need more mildly challenging solo-duties so that people realise they need to improve and can do that in the process. Yes, I think dungeons - the moment, its NOT a solo-duty anymore - should be gated behind said solo-duties in which people prove that they have basic skills, like their rotation down and moving out of AoEs.
When me and my friends did The Burn on tuesday we got a bard with an ilvl300 weapon and no clue how to play their class (also no reaction in party-chat, so we kicked them after the 5 minutes had passed). That is just... not okay and shows nothing but a lack of courtesy for your fellow players - after all this isnt a solo-game and the courtesy I'm asking for is very low level: Have proper gear and an idea of what you're doing at level 70.

Setting solo-duties to "Easy" instead of improving when you eventually have to play with other people again isnt really helpful...

I wouldnt mind seeing a "challenge mode" for certain solo-duties though!
...but yeah, as an answer to Kirsten questions I feel this fails right at the moment you think of group-content asking the same of you as the solo-duties do. You're robbing yourself of a needed learning experience when you dumb those solo-duties down if you cant clear them in the difficulty thats present right now. And once you're in group-content you cant just put on "Easy" anymore and have half the AoEs disappear and stuff only hit half as hard.

[Kirsten_Rev]

I suggest having difficulty option at start of fight like some single player games. Easy, Normal, Hard, and Very Hard. Granted I would probably end up choosing Easy every time to get it over with.

It's an interesting idea, but I still don't think it fully handles the issue. Let me elaborate a bit more.

The MSQ is not intended to be fully accessible content. I believe Yoshi-P has said as much himself, though I've no desire to hunt down the exact quote. It is intended to be on the easier side of the content spectrum, but it's also intended to build player skill, serve as a bridge into harder, non-MSQ content, and provide incentive to improve gear. In other words, the MSQ is the fail-safe that ensures virtually everyone at level 70 has moved past the stock level 70 gear provided at the end of 4.0.

So with this in mind, even with difficulty settings, the easiest would have to push players to some extent. I'm curious as to the OP's thoughts - and yours - on what that point should be. Me personally, I think providing a challenge when someone is 30 iLevels below the entry-level gear introduced alongside the content in question is reasonable.

I350 is completly fine for the msq. These quests are designed that even undergeared players, which is not even the case with i350, can do it.

I'm aware, but by the standards of the typical MSQ instance, these are a bit more challenging, in my opinion. I certainly didn't find them at all rough, but I can see where some people might.