Thread: [4.4 Discussion] "Change the Future"

You seem to be missing my point. None of that excuses what they're trying to inflict upon Hingashi. Rowena is an amusing character, though she's not a particularly pleasant person. Neither is Lolorito. They both benefit Eorzea immensely - and in Lolorito's case it's technically Ul'dah in particular that he cares for. They have both exploited the Warrior of Light for their own gain. It's now reaching a point where they - and certain others - are moving directly against the interests of foreign nations and actively sabotaging them.

Let's not beat around the bush. Let's speak hypothetically. If a mysterious island had arisen off of the coast of Eorzea and a foreign nation lay claim to it with the intention of using it to weaken Eorzea's trade do you think the Eorzeans would shrug it off and have no issue with such a move?

I do not think they would. I think they'd likely have Merlwyb and her fleet get involved.

In short, my main point is that Eorzea and Eorzean organisations seem to be more than willing to engage in imperialistic practices whilst crying foul when they are the ones subjected to them. Hence 'hubris'. They're due a rude awakening, I believe.

I still don't see Rowena and Lolorito's actions as being equivalent to Eorzea acting in an imperialistic way. They are individuals who happen to be Eorzean. We have an uneasy relationship with them at the best of time, and their actions don't represent the Alliance - but at the same time, the Alliance isn't going to reach halfway around the world just to stop them from setting up shop in a foreign country. That's the other country's business.

Yes, if a foreign country was doing it to Eorzea, they might rightfully intervene - but then in this case it's Hingashi that is fully entitled to strike at Rowena and EATC's dealings on Val, or claim the island for themselves since it's in their territory. And they have not.

Lolorito is hardly a small figure in the grand scheme of things and is effectively on an equal level to Nanamo when it comes to running their nation. Ul'dah is a member of the Eorzean Alliance - therefore anything it does reflects on the Eorzean Alliance as a whole. You should know by now that I'm very fond of morally grey elements in FFXIV's story. I don't oppose them. Yet if the Eorzean Alliance is going to push for reform then it needs to start looking closer to home and reigning in some of its own shady elements.

Lolorito has power, maybe as much as Nanamo, but he's not treated as her equal on official representing-the-country business.

And they've been trying to rein him in for ages. There's been a whole running plot thread about Raubahn and Nanamo's frustrations with not having authority over the Syndicate's shadier actions.

Yes, that's something that they've not been particularly effective at. It's also perfectly understandable that Lolorito acts the way that he does. He's one of the characters I find very interesting - far more so than either Nanamo or Raubahn. He's ruthless and manipulative...but he's a patriot with lines he will not cross. That doesn't change the fact that his actions reflect on Ul'dah and thus the rest of the Eorzean Alliance as a consequence. Or that the Warrior of Light - someone with the power to challenge literal deities - is having his power exploited to strengthen one nation and weaken another.

Hingashi does not deserve to be subjected to such abuse. Though as I mentioned earlier, I'm hoping that the Isle of Val will prove to be a lost cause and the trade exploit will not go ahead as the region will prove far too dangerous on a long term basis. I'd say that's pretty likely given that it needs to be a persistent zone so people can go and work on their relic weapons in the region.

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

There is also a noticable event happening all over the world now where Aether is disappearing from the land. I can only assume this is part of the Calamity the Voice is trying to prevent that may have made the World complete devoid of Aether in the Future the Voice is from and thus difficult to support life to a point even Ascians regets their actions since they need a world of aether to support their God Zodiark. After all our World is the Main world and if it becomes lifeless then all sides of the conflict are doomed.

It's possible I'm over simplifying this in my head, but I think there's a really easy explanation for why aether is weakening around the globe, and that is Y'Shtola's actions at the House of the Crooked Coin. If you take a land that is completely strangled off and starved of aether and basically open up the flood gate (in reverse?) to allow aether to flow into that part of the world, it will absorb any and all aether it can to normalize itself with the rest of the world. It's entirely possible that Eorzea was so rich in aether specifically because it had starved part of its own world of that resource making it more abundant in the areas it could appear.

It's possible we have to undo a lot of the actions we had just taken in order to prevent some of the other problems from occurring.

Y'shtola's actions at the House of the Crooked Coin did not cause the depleted aether in Othard or Eorzia. Y'shtola specifically brings up crystals loosing their aetheric charge before she and Hein even go to the Steppe.

Manipulating aether at the House of the Crooked Coin has a long and storied history. Y'shtola is simply the last person to manipulate the aether there and she's probably the most benevolent person to do it. Both in motive and in effect.

The first time aether is manipulated at the House of the Crooked Coin is all the way back in the 3rd Astral Era. Someone (and we have enough information to make a good guess of who it was; it's probably Amon or an Allagan scientist working with him) uses the crystal to stop the flow of all aether to the Burn. This makes the land lifeless and perfect for hacking off pieces of it and floating it using the crystal's aether. This happens sometime before the Allagan war with Mercydia ends as the lore book makes mention of experiments developed in Azys Lla being used in that war. Most importantly, the flow of aether of aether to the Burn is never restored.

The second time, the crystal is used to get Dalamud into orbit. Again, it's probably Amon (or people working with him) who does this. This is after the war with Mercydia. And still the aether to the Burn isn't restored.

After this, five thousand years and three Calamities go by. This entire time, the Burn has gone without aether. During this time, Solus comes across it and says this is what happens when too many primals get summoned. Yeah right.

The third (and probably last) time aether is manipulated at the House of the Crooked Coin is by Y'shtola. And it's specifically to restore the flow of aether to the Burn. She's finally fixing an imbalance in the world's aether that has been around for 5,000 years.

I'm not sure I'd call being denied overly aggressive tariffs by taking their trade elsewhere abuse to the nation or an act of national aggression when it's being done by non-government organizations. Tariffs go both ways as well, and given the class issues made present in the Samurai and some Kugane quests it could be that there's plenty Hingashi who want their own goods going out into the world as much as there are traders from without trying to get their wares in and being unable to by such economic stifling though that's heavy inference.

They're not wrong to monitor and try to control the flow of imported goods, though, and I don't think that aspect of trade would change with the tariffs being dodged since they still have the sekiseigumi and the local magistrate tracking goods. They don't know the quantities foreign markets could send in, or what, if domestic goods get flooded out their economy can take massive hits.

Does bring up something interesting. Who would actually own Eureka? How far from Hingashi is it? Apparently far enough that they have yet to lay claim. As it's the Isle of Val does it still belong to Sharlayan? Since Sharlayans are backing the expedition to recover their own people and find out how it got transported does that legitimize their use as a port?