Thread: [4.4 Discussion] "Change the Future"

Originally Posted by Iscah

Is that Eorzea's doing though? As far as I was aware, that's the work of Rowena and the East Aldenard Trading Company. Neither of them exactly being the altruistic working-for-the-greater-good sort, and certainly not the same thing as the Eorzean Alliance trying to set up a trading post like that.

Well, they're prominent Eorzean organisations.

Furthermore, it's an example of what I refer to whenever I point out that the Warrior of Light's power is not always used for noble ends. The mystery surrounding the Isle of Val needs to be resolved, there's no doubt about that - but Hingashi does not deserve to be weakened. It's not an enemy. It's supposedly more of an ally.

I'm personally hoping that the Isle of Val will end up in a stalemate that prevents it from being exploited. Perhaps it will be far too dangerous to use as a trade hub even after whatever is sealed there is defeated or bound anew.

Are you kidding? This is the East Aldenard Trading Company we're talking about. You know... the trading company that was trying to bargain with Garlemald back in 1.0? The trading company that is already getting around Kugane's tariffs by dealing directly with the Confederacy? The company that blatantly says it could care less about the Sultana dying if it was good for business? An uninhabited island pops up in the Glass Ocean that no one's claimed yet? Yeah they're going to go for it.

And then there's Rowena who basically runs her own trading empire out of Mor Dhona... No matter how sketchy some of stuff she does is, everyone agrees her business sense is second-to-none and her products are legit. She will provide what people pay her for.

Like it or not, the Eorzean Alliance doesn't have a lot of control over the "frontier" parts of Aldenard. Mor Dhona is almost treated like it's own city-state (run by Rowena) as is Iddlyshire. And the Alliance has been shown to not have a lot of control over what it's larger Companies do either. It's not like Rowena or the EATC took over an island that belonged to Hingashi previously.

On the other side, this is Hingashi. They've all but let the Confederacy take charge of all the shipping in the Ruby Sea for as long as everyone can remember. Rowena and EATC are basically functioning like the Confederacy is, only instead of being between Hingashi and Doma, they're between Hingashi and Eorzea.

You seem to be missing my point. None of that excuses what they're trying to inflict upon Hingashi. Rowena is an amusing character, though she's not a particularly pleasant person. Neither is Lolorito. They both benefit Eorzea immensely - and in Lolorito's case it's technically Ul'dah in particular that he cares for. They have both exploited the Warrior of Light for their own gain. It's now reaching a point where they - and certain others - are moving directly against the interests of foreign nations and actively sabotaging them.

Let's not beat around the bush. Let's speak hypothetically. If a mysterious island had arisen off of the coast of Eorzea and a foreign nation lay claim to it with the intention of using it to weaken Eorzea's trade do you think the Eorzeans would shrug it off and have no issue with such a move?

I do not think they would. I think they'd likely have Merlwyb and her fleet get involved.

In short, my main point is that Eorzea and Eorzean organisations seem to be more than willing to engage in imperialistic practices whilst crying foul when they are the ones subjected to them. Hence 'hubris'. They're due a rude awakening, I believe.

I still don't see Rowena and Lolorito's actions as being equivalent to Eorzea acting in an imperialistic way. They are individuals who happen to be Eorzean. We have an uneasy relationship with them at the best of time, and their actions don't represent the Alliance - but at the same time, the Alliance isn't going to reach halfway around the world just to stop them from setting up shop in a foreign country. That's the other country's business.

Yes, if a foreign country was doing it to Eorzea, they might rightfully intervene - but then in this case it's Hingashi that is fully entitled to strike at Rowena and EATC's dealings on Val, or claim the island for themselves since it's in their territory. And they have not.

Lolorito is hardly a small figure in the grand scheme of things and is effectively on an equal level to Nanamo when it comes to running their nation. Ul'dah is a member of the Eorzean Alliance - therefore anything it does reflects on the Eorzean Alliance as a whole. You should know by now that I'm very fond of morally grey elements in FFXIV's story. I don't oppose them. Yet if the Eorzean Alliance is going to push for reform then it needs to start looking closer to home and reigning in some of its own shady elements.

Lolorito has power, maybe as much as Nanamo, but he's not treated as her equal on official representing-the-country business.

And they've been trying to rein him in for ages. There's been a whole running plot thread about Raubahn and Nanamo's frustrations with not having authority over the Syndicate's shadier actions.

Yes, that's something that they've not been particularly effective at. It's also perfectly understandable that Lolorito acts the way that he does. He's one of the characters I find very interesting - far more so than either Nanamo or Raubahn. He's ruthless and manipulative...but he's a patriot with lines he will not cross. That doesn't change the fact that his actions reflect on Ul'dah and thus the rest of the Eorzean Alliance as a consequence. Or that the Warrior of Light - someone with the power to challenge literal deities - is having his power exploited to strengthen one nation and weaken another.

Hingashi does not deserve to be subjected to such abuse. Though as I mentioned earlier, I'm hoping that the Isle of Val will prove to be a lost cause and the trade exploit will not go ahead as the region will prove far too dangerous on a long term basis. I'd say that's pretty likely given that it needs to be a persistent zone so people can go and work on their relic weapons in the region.

Y'shtola's actions at the House of the Crooked Coin did not cause the depleted aether in Othard or Eorzia. Y'shtola specifically brings up crystals loosing their aetheric charge before she and Hein even go to the Steppe.

Manipulating aether at the House of the Crooked Coin has a long and storied history. Y'shtola is simply the last person to manipulate the aether there and she's probably the most benevolent person to do it. Both in motive and in effect.

The first time aether is manipulated at the House of the Crooked Coin is all the way back in the 3rd Astral Era. Someone (and we have enough information to make a good guess of who it was; it's probably Amon or an Allagan scientist working with him) uses the crystal to stop the flow of all aether to the Burn. This makes the land lifeless and perfect for hacking off pieces of it and floating it using the crystal's aether. This happens sometime before the Allagan war with Mercydia ends as the lore book makes mention of experiments developed in Azys Lla being used in that war. Most importantly, the flow of aether of aether to the Burn is never restored.

The second time, the crystal is used to get Dalamud into orbit. Again, it's probably Amon (or people working with him) who does this. This is after the war with Mercydia. And still the aether to the Burn isn't restored.

After this, five thousand years and three Calamities go by. This entire time, the Burn has gone without aether. During this time, Solus comes across it and says this is what happens when too many primals get summoned. Yeah right.

The third (and probably last) time aether is manipulated at the House of the Crooked Coin is by Y'shtola. And it's specifically to restore the flow of aether to the Burn. She's finally fixing an imbalance in the world's aether that has been around for 5,000 years.

I'm certainly seeing Varis in a new light, now, and I'm extremely curious as to HOW LONG he knew that his grandfather was an Ascian. Was he raised from a child with this knowledge, or did he only find out once Elidibus moved in? If he was previously aware, it lends a new layer to his shock at seeing Elidibus wearing his son's face: by taking the body of the heir apparent, the Ascians are clearly gearing up to personally take the reins of Galemand once again.

Varis is also clearly not too pleased with the Ascians' use of him and the empire, and yet seems unwilling to do anything about it. I'm wondering if we're looking at another Thordan situation here, where he believes that if the truth was revealed, the terrible knowledge would destroy his nation. And so, he sees himself as being in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation: Either he sits idly by and allows the Ascians to use his nation as a machine to spread discord, or he acts against them and dooms that same country to destruction. And, being Varis, the rest of the world can go to Hell - Garlemand is the only important thing. But it is galling, nonetheless.

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

After this, five thousand years and three Calamities go by. This entire time, the Burn has gone without aether. During this time, Solus comes across it and says this is what happens when too many primals get summoned. Yeah right.

I want to point out that both theories may be correct. Primals may have depleted the landscape, and the Allagan's manipulations prevented Aether from flowing back in to restore it. Certainly, it suited Solus's designs to omit the latter part, no doubt.