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  1. #11
    Player
    RukiaFae's Avatar
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    Rukia Fae
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    Goblin
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    Goldsmith Lv 78
    Quote Originally Posted by XelphatolTylenolCepacolAlcohol View Post
    A poem from before the release of Stormblood comes to mind...

    Look ye where the sun doth rise, see crimson embers dark\\'ning skies. Look ye where the sun doth fall, see azure lost amidst the squall.


    Urianger repeats this to Alisaie before we first set sail for Kugane. It\\'s never really been.....resolved.

    I\\'m thinking possibly
    Ishgard?
    Wow that's a good guess
    May also be the reason we aren't getting a housing area for Ishgard. Also why Ishgard continues to be in ruins when areas in Ala Mihgo and Doma are improving.
    (4)

  2. #12
    Player
    Rosenoire's Avatar
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Galqar Haragin
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    Gilgamesh
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    Dark Knight Lv 100
    MSQ stuffs:

    I was absolutely getting an Ardyn vibe off Solus, to the point where I wondered if it was the same VA.

    Also, who knew they were going to release The Burn (Extreme) this patch? Because Magnai is going to need Esuna for that!
    (14)

  3. #13
    Player
    WhiteArchmage's Avatar
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    Samniel Atkascha
    World
    Faerie
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    Dancer Lv 90
    Somewhat MSQ/looking towards 5.0 till I finish the MSQ

    When Hien talks about forming an Alliance of their own, he mentions Hingashi and Sui-no-Sato, along with Nagxia and DALMASCA, seeing as how we've seen Bangaa and Seeq in Rabanastre, this could be a potential hint/excuse for Viera, yes, that thing again


    Apologies if someone mentioned it earlier, haven't finished MSQ yet and don't wanna spoil myself.
    (3)

  4. #14
    Player
    Jonnycbad's Avatar
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    Seraphus Highwynn
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    Gilgamesh
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    Lancer Lv 100
    The story is getting dangerously close to being very Kingdom Hearts-ish. The Ascians are starting to resemble Organization XIII and its irking me. The Empire is seemingly more and more comic book villain-ish. I had hoped they were a grey area.
    (2)

  5. #15
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    My thoughts on (and responses to others' thoughts on) MSQ.

    I didn't watch the trailer so I discovered everything "as it happened".

    Overall I'm a bit puzzled by the patch poster. Why so much focus on people we didn't see except briefly? (Or not at all in the case of Maxima!) Just a big red herring about what would happen in the Burn?


    The sudden 'dark vision' in the meeting caught me totally by surprise, and in that way that you're processing it in real time in exactly the same way as your character is. Meeting with friends, all going well, (out in the real world I was drinking my tea and just watching the scene unfold), BAM. What is this. Some kind of corrupted Echo and - wait, everyone saw that vision? It's stopped now? Thancred doesn't look so---- Gods be good, he just collapsed.


    Also, Allagan ruins in the Burn. I meant to write here prior to the trailer coming out, I'd looked at the House of the Crooked Coin and I was pretty sure it must be an Allagan ruin. The Dawn Throne has similar carvings, and seems to well predate the Xaela settlement, or its current state anyway - they're simply using it as a lawn for their tents. Maybe they built the castle, or maybe they found it there. And having replayed the Crystal Tower storyline recently on an alt, I noticed some carvings around the Eight Sentinels and tower entrance in Mor Dhona that look similar or the same. Needs more looking into.

    I meant to go back and have a thorough look at the ruins before exiting the dungeon, but given that it was something like my tenth attempt and overall third time through the dungeon (after two vote abandons at the final boss) I was a little too elated at finishing to remember to do that.

    I did notice though - it seems that the worm tunnels have bored through the Allagan ruins.


    I wasn't so excited by the Magnai and Sadu story. Never found them really enjoyable characters, so... glad other people enjoyed it. I love Carvallain and Rhoswyn though.


    Solus is super creepy.


    And I'm disappointed that it's just "suddenly Alphinaud and Gaius seem to have been travelling together for some time" and no chance to see how their relationship builds. (Also Alphinaud looks so out-of-place colour-wise in that scene. So much white when the others are all in earthy colours.)


    The return of the Black Rose plot reminds me that I noticed there's a tunnel leading some way into/under the Percipient One tree that was linked to that plotline. Potential 'future event location'?


    Current "absent characters" waiting to be brought back into play: actual-Zenos, Fordola, Estinien, Maxima




    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    So the voice hits and people start getting "called away" from their bodies. We can rule out Alphinaud, it looks like. And I still think it sounds like Arbert but... The only thing we've EVER seen call soul from body is Hydaelyn, and it looked like we were in nothingness. C-Crystal Dad? Is that you? Zodiark was like #3 or #4 on my list of possible voices, in the "I don't see how, but maybe." category. I could see how, now, lol.
    I have the voices turned off (because some of the ARR voice acting annoyed me, and got used to it that way so I never turned it back on), so I'm purely running on visuals and text.

    And from that, I had no doubt this was Zodiark. It never even crossed my mind it could be something else.

    When it begins, it looked exactly like we were having an Echo vision - but then the colour was all wrong and we were thrown into that darkness. The same but opposite, and a voice speaking to us (in the same 'not a text bubble' way that Hydaelyn does!) of darkness and everything we've been working against... what else could it be?

    And if that is the case, what do we make of the fact that He can reach out to all the Scions at once? Not just specific chosen ones like Hydaelyn is restricted to speaking to.

    And then of course, the apparent power to rip souls away from their bodies! Is it like the opposite of tempering where the primal's essence goes into the body? (Even more so if you go with the "Hydaelyn has tempered us" theory. As an approximation of concept at least.)




    Quote Originally Posted by Mieck View Post
    But wait, what?! In my head the entire time, Azys Lla was the result of plucking enormous parts of Meracydia from the face of Hydaelyn? I mean, there's the whole of Delta Quadrent which must have been, right? And the cathedral was dedicated to Sephirot - a Meracydian primal! My headcanon is in tatters...
    I guess it's possible that parts of it got stitched together from different regions? Did Y'shtola visit Delta Quadrant to be able to compare it to the rest?




    Quote Originally Posted by XelphatolTylenolCepacolAlcohol View Post
    A poem from before the release of Stormblood comes to mind...

    Look ye where the sun doth rise, see crimson embers dark'ning skies. Look ye where the sun doth fall, see azure lost amidst the squall.

    Urianger repeats this to Alisaie before we first set sail for Kugane. It's never really been.....resolved.

    I'm thinking possibly Ishgard?
    oh goodness Ishgard please don't break it, I want the plot to go back there but not like that.... ahem.

    "Azure" almost invariably refers to Ishgard, the question is what and when the prophesied event is supposed to be. (And whether it's the 'self-fulfilling' sort that, if deciphered in time, will still contrive to come true in spite of or directly due to your attempts to prevent it.)
    (3)
    Last edited by Iscah; 09-19-2018 at 05:51 AM.

  6. #16
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Bismarck
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    Summoner Lv 90
    Also, a general question - isn't it going to get a bit messy if people leave "blank space" in their posts to slot new comments in later? Since the "new posts in thread" button won't take you back to revisit new additions to old posts. (At least, I wouldn't be checking back through the whole topic to track which posts had new text added to them.) I would think it's a better idea to just make a second post later to add your new comments.
    (5)

  7. #17
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Matthieu Desrosiers
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    Cerberus
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    Reaper Lv 90
    Main Scenario Quests:

    It's always wonderful when my speculation turns out to be correct. Once again, a lot of my own interpretations turn out to be true. Varis' hands are tied and he's displeased with the manipulation of the Ascians but is limited in regards to what he can to do mitigate things. I suspect he's going to work with Alphinaud at some point, given that the pair already met back in the Sea of Clouds during the previous expansion. Solus being possessed by an Ascian is very intriguing. His mannerisms and style gives me serious Ardyn vibes. For those not in the know, he's the main antagonist of FFXV. Varis, meanwhile, does not seem to be on board with what the Ascians are planning. His statement about wanting to put history into the hands of man made me grin - because I had a strong hunch that he was not the generic cartoon villain some here were trying desperately to paint him as.

    As for the strange voice...it's very telling, I believe, that it first emerged when Thancred was proposing his plan and the leaders of the Eorzean Alliance were set to go along with it. To defeat the Ascians and avert a Calamity I believe that Garlemald and Eorzea will need to put aside their differences. Encouraging the Empire to grow desperate and weaker, however, will play right into the Ascian's hands. It will also cause a significant amount of bloodshed on both sides. I don't believe that Varis desires that - he's been showing quite a bit of restraint thus far. Most recently by defying Solus and Elidibus. We also now know that it is the Ascians exploiting the Garlean's disadvantages to their benefit, which further makes them sympathetic and tragic. At least to those who appreciate and grasp nuances, at any rate.

    I also enjoyed the portion of the MSQ that took place in the Steppes. Perhaps poor Magnai can settle for Hien? The Prince of Doma seems to enjoy being chased by the Buduga quite a bit. I also liked how the Ruby Princess and Hingashi alike both declined to go to war with Garlemald. That, in turn, confirms a lot of my own headcanon in regards to Hingashi. I suspect the Eorzean's eagerness to exploit the Isle of Val as a workaround to Kugane's trade tariffs played a part in their decision.
    (7)

  8. #18
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Amaurot
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    Tristain Archambeau
    World
    Cerberus
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    Black Mage Lv 90
    All in all, this was very interesting. I am going to "cheat" a bit and copy/paste from a reddit post which summarised this handily (link: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tch_44/e67e857). Contains spoilers, so click at your own risk!


    Empire is agitating for retaliation against Doma for Tsukuyomi. Hien wants to make an alliance with Hingashi/Sui-no-Sato/Nagxia. Only Azim answers positively, though there's hope for other off-camera allies to come around.
    I am pleasantly surprised that it was not a walk in the park, particularly in Hingashi's case. It goes to show that Hingashi values its own preservation and existing alliances above all else. It does have a rather cautious elite and must wonder if they are concerned that closer bonds with the Eorzean Alliance could spur rebellions in their own homeland - rebellions which, from their historic experience, were more like the French Terror than the American Revolution.

    While negotiating with the Au Ra, we come up with the revelation that Azys Lla was raised from the Burn using the pillars in the northern cave in Azim (where the Dotharl go to die forever). We decide to switch on the shield generators in the Burn (which should block airships as effectively as Azys Lla's shield) using the mechanism in Azim. Bonus: aether will return to the Burn. Surely nothing could go wrong. As Y'shtola switches it on, everything goes the same shade of purple that we see in e.g. The Chrysalis. Optional extra chat with Temulun reveals she senses a silver of darkness within us now. No one really gives this part of the plan a second thought even though we're messing with aether on a scale only used twice in known history before.
    Now THIS part was hugely interesting. The device's nature is a mystery, other than it appears to be some means of regulating whence and whither aether can flow. The fact that Y'shtola and later Urianger confirm that there is a deficiency of aether in various locales is no doubt referring to the "hints" the Rising event threw us, of the world being bled dry.

    During the meeting, all of the Scions (and only the Scions) are struck with a debilitating headache and hear a voice. WoL hears it most clearly - it warns of an impending Calamity, Light expunging all life, says only the WoL can prevent it, and demands the WoL "throw wide the gates." Thancred goes into a coma as a result. Kan-E Senna says his soul is no longer present in his body, and the phenomenon was the soul being "called" away. For some reason everyone is a lot more focused on the headaches happening at all than what the voice said to WoL? Ok, seems important, but sure.
    I have a suspicion that this is more Ascian intervention. My guess here is that Elidibus has convinced Arbert of the imminence of a Calamity of Light - rightly or wrongly - prompting him to contact you, and insist that you open the passage for his return. It's unclear, this could even be direct Ascian manipulation, but this is not Lahabrea, Nabriales or Igeyorhm we're dealing with, but a far more subtle thinker, and our character was sympathetic to Arbert's plight, and therefore may take the bait. Of course, this may all be Arbert's own doing out of genuine conviction. There's a number of possibilities here, and any number of variables may or may not hold true. If it is Zodiark, and there is truly a Calamity of Light looming, and we're not fully apprised of his nature, this would fit with another hypothesis of mine. I agree that the time compression comments are reminiscent of Zodiark, but at the same time, they could also be what his Emissary or champions would say. Of course, the interceptions come at critical moments, but this may all relate to that "glint" of darkness Temulun saw, allowing an agent of darkness insight into the Scions' actions and the ability to beckon to them.

    Epilogue: Zenos, confirmed to definitely be Elidibus, pushes Varis to give the word to commence the invasion of Ala Mhigo. Varis refuses to speak to him, and Elidibus walks away. Another figure comes out from the shadows, revealed to be Varis' dead grandfather, the previous emperor, Solus. He is revealed to have been an Ascian the entire time, the Empire founded for the explicit purpose of sowing chaos.
    This was a HUGE one, especially after SE had stated in the past that the eminence grise behind Garlemald was not Ascian in nature. Apparently, it is. I think this may explain why Varis has been playing along. It's not so much that he sought out or sought to out-play Elidibus, but rather that the Ascians had been invested and well placed to act within the Empire all along. Hence, it would not be too difficult for Elidibus to ferry out grand-daddy, reveal some hard truths about the Empire, and see if Varis will convert to his cause. If not, blackmail is another route. Varis does not have any liking for the Ascians, or what is going on around him, but he appears cornered. I had thought that his personal guard might respond to Zenos's orders as well as his, and this was confirmed. I just wonder, now, how much of Stormblood can be explained through Elidibus having a hold over Varis? It would explain the imperial mainland's relative passivity whilst Zenos suffered two defeats, and also the zeal with which the Populares were dispatched. My thoughts, based on the words Elidibus used when face-dancing, was that it may have begun with gentle words and promises but later transmogrified into outright blackmail. I am interested in what means Varis possesses, exactly, to realise the Ascians' goal, when this new Ascian says (to paraphrase), "by your own hands".

    On Moose's point about restoring the world to its original state, my thinking is that Varis's reticence suggests he is no longer willing to work with the Ascians but has little choice. What I believe "Solus" is doing is trying to get him to internalise the Ascian point of view on the matter. Alternatively: he is re-casting Varis's internalised goal (the Empire's, of eradicating the Eikon threat) in the same light as the Ascians' goal, of restoring the world to its original balance. This could be why Varis is so thoroughly displeased.

    The question of when Solus became Ascian possessed is also interesting, or that an Ascian would choose a Garlean pureblood, unable as they are to wield the aether. It is likely, in my view, that they have had knowledge of how to impart their echo - the "Resonance" - for quite some time, and began with Solus, some time before he became Emperor - likely in the stage of his life where the Ascian has "frozen" him. It does raise the question of "when", but my suspicion is that the Ascians stood back and waited to see how the Garleans fared and sided with the "winner"; I suspect nudges early on in the Republic days, more than outright control here. If the lore on Goug confirms that they are the ancestors of the Garleans, the Ascians might have seen in the Purebloods something special - perhaps their unique aetheric situation makes it much harder for Hydaelyn to "eject" the true-form Ascians from their bodies, especially ones gifted with the Echo/Resonance. Major Ardyn vibes!

    Epilogue 2: Alphinaud and Gaius come upon a remote resistance camp, at which the poison "Black Rose" was deployed, killing everyone there. They decide the Ascians did this and resolve to stop them. Again.
    Good luck, is all I can say.

    I am of the view that the Ascians, as we know them, are limited to an extent by the capabilities of their hosts; for example, how Lahabrea was ejected from Thancred due to Hydaelyn, but also when Igeyorhm excoriates her mortal body's "fragility". Both "Zenos" and "Solus" have been likely re-fashioned into as close as you can get to an ideal host for their Ascian "buddies". "Solus's" injection into the plotline makes me think Elidibus has much farther to go, and "Solus" is likelier to be the baddy we face in 5.0. After all, even Y'shtola, a Scion with the Echo, was flummoxed by channeling the amount of aether she did in the Steppes. So perhaps some "preparation" can assist an Ascian in perfecting their posession over a host to greater heights. "Zenos", after all, states he possesses the means to end the Eikon-slayer, in his "adamant" form. I doubt he's just bluffing, seeing what Zenos without Elidibus could do.

    The patch has, in classic SE style (as of late), introduced plenty of unknowns into the equation.

    Big ones for me are:

    *What, exactly, happened when Y'shtola flooded the Burn with aetheric energy? There were vague snapshots of scenery like the Chrysalis, and as the above-quoted, is Temulun right about seeing a glint of darkness in you? Is this what allowed for the Scions to be intercepted so?
    *Where is the real Zenos? What role will he play? Will Elidibus lure him with the promise of final death? He may help us land a killing blow on grand-daddy but I suspect he will meet his final demise at Elidibus's hand.
    *Just what is the extent of Allagan involvement in the House of the Crooked Coin? Are all the Au Ra's beliefs premised on a lie, or did the Allagan go there due to an abundance of aether, rather than creating what would later be deified? These have been long-standing questions/issues with the Allagan. ALL godly involvement could ultimately resolve to their own machinations, or to eikons.
    *Do Sadu and Magnai possess the Echo? They both seem very powerful in their own right, and able to go toe-to-toe with the Scions/WoL.
    *When will Magnai get his Nhaama, and when will the Buduga get their Hien?

    Predictions:

    *There is indeed the threat of a twin calamity. The unknown is who will we meet when we throw wide the floodgates, which I believe we will. My bet is still on Arbert, as it is too early for Zodiark, and he is still guided by Elidibus. I don't doubt Elidibus on the point that both light and darkness can run in excess. My own hypothesis is also that we have a poor understanding of the true nature of either divinity. We may see ourselves working with Arbert, possibly Elidibus and a very slight chance of it being Zodiark.
    *When we head to Garlemald, we will find ourselves allying with Varis, who in turn will probably come to work with the Populares. I had thought they might kill him off but as the Eorzean Alliance said, a war of succession would be costly and de-stabilise the Ascians' plans. I don't think they want to incur that risk. They're likelier to imprison him, if the need should arise.
    *Elidibus will not die anytime soon, but "Solus" might be destroyed if he pushes too far early in the next expansion.
    *We might see a Scion - probably Thancred - lost for good. This could mean as a permanent host for an Ascian, or simply blank inside.
    *Magnai finds out his Nhaama was standing right next to him, all along - Daidukul!

    All in all, I really enjoyed the patch and the degree to which it showcased how devious the Ascians are. Also really hoping they keep up this new guy's Ardyn vibe! Genuinely impressed by SE exceeding 4.3 in the lore department.
    (5)
    Last edited by Lauront; 09-19-2018 at 07:40 AM. Reason: dumb errors
    When the game's story becomes self-aware:


  9. #19
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnycbad View Post
    The story is getting dangerously close to being very Kingdom Hearts-ish. The Ascians are starting to resemble Organization XIII and its irking me. The Empire is seemingly more and more comic book villain-ish. I had hoped they were a grey area.
    Only starting to resemble...?

    Also: "This world has been connected - tied to the darkness..."
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Tristain Archambeau
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    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnycbad View Post
    The story is getting dangerously close to being very Kingdom Hearts-ish. The Ascians are starting to resemble Organization XIII and its irking me. The Empire is seemingly more and more comic book villain-ish. I had hoped they were a grey area.
    One must remember to differentiate between what it and its people believe is the case, and what the Ascians have been doing behind the scenes, much as in Ishgard. The grey is there.
    (3)
    When the game's story becomes self-aware:


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