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  1. #1
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
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    Red Mage Lv 100
    Also, a general question - isn't it going to get a bit messy if people leave "blank space" in their posts to slot new comments in later? Since the "new posts in thread" button won't take you back to revisit new additions to old posts. (At least, I wouldn't be checking back through the whole topic to track which posts had new text added to them.) I would think it's a better idea to just make a second post later to add your new comments.
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
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    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Main Scenario Quests:

    It's always wonderful when my speculation turns out to be correct. Once again, a lot of my own interpretations turn out to be true. Varis' hands are tied and he's displeased with the manipulation of the Ascians but is limited in regards to what he can to do mitigate things. I suspect he's going to work with Alphinaud at some point, given that the pair already met back in the Sea of Clouds during the previous expansion. Solus being possessed by an Ascian is very intriguing. His mannerisms and style gives me serious Ardyn vibes. For those not in the know, he's the main antagonist of FFXV. Varis, meanwhile, does not seem to be on board with what the Ascians are planning. His statement about wanting to put history into the hands of man made me grin - because I had a strong hunch that he was not the generic cartoon villain some here were trying desperately to paint him as.

    As for the strange voice...it's very telling, I believe, that it first emerged when Thancred was proposing his plan and the leaders of the Eorzean Alliance were set to go along with it. To defeat the Ascians and avert a Calamity I believe that Garlemald and Eorzea will need to put aside their differences. Encouraging the Empire to grow desperate and weaker, however, will play right into the Ascian's hands. It will also cause a significant amount of bloodshed on both sides. I don't believe that Varis desires that - he's been showing quite a bit of restraint thus far. Most recently by defying Solus and Elidibus. We also now know that it is the Ascians exploiting the Garlean's disadvantages to their benefit, which further makes them sympathetic and tragic. At least to those who appreciate and grasp nuances, at any rate.

    I also enjoyed the portion of the MSQ that took place in the Steppes. Perhaps poor Magnai can settle for Hien? The Prince of Doma seems to enjoy being chased by the Buduga quite a bit. I also liked how the Ruby Princess and Hingashi alike both declined to go to war with Garlemald. That, in turn, confirms a lot of my own headcanon in regards to Hingashi. I suspect the Eorzean's eagerness to exploit the Isle of Val as a workaround to Kugane's trade tariffs played a part in their decision.
    (7)

  3. #3
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Amaurot
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    Tristain Archambeau
    World
    Cerberus
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    Black Mage Lv 90
    All in all, this was very interesting. I am going to "cheat" a bit and copy/paste from a reddit post which summarised this handily (link: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tch_44/e67e857). Contains spoilers, so click at your own risk!


    Empire is agitating for retaliation against Doma for Tsukuyomi. Hien wants to make an alliance with Hingashi/Sui-no-Sato/Nagxia. Only Azim answers positively, though there's hope for other off-camera allies to come around.
    I am pleasantly surprised that it was not a walk in the park, particularly in Hingashi's case. It goes to show that Hingashi values its own preservation and existing alliances above all else. It does have a rather cautious elite and must wonder if they are concerned that closer bonds with the Eorzean Alliance could spur rebellions in their own homeland - rebellions which, from their historic experience, were more like the French Terror than the American Revolution.

    While negotiating with the Au Ra, we come up with the revelation that Azys Lla was raised from the Burn using the pillars in the northern cave in Azim (where the Dotharl go to die forever). We decide to switch on the shield generators in the Burn (which should block airships as effectively as Azys Lla's shield) using the mechanism in Azim. Bonus: aether will return to the Burn. Surely nothing could go wrong. As Y'shtola switches it on, everything goes the same shade of purple that we see in e.g. The Chrysalis. Optional extra chat with Temulun reveals she senses a silver of darkness within us now. No one really gives this part of the plan a second thought even though we're messing with aether on a scale only used twice in known history before.
    Now THIS part was hugely interesting. The device's nature is a mystery, other than it appears to be some means of regulating whence and whither aether can flow. The fact that Y'shtola and later Urianger confirm that there is a deficiency of aether in various locales is no doubt referring to the "hints" the Rising event threw us, of the world being bled dry.

    During the meeting, all of the Scions (and only the Scions) are struck with a debilitating headache and hear a voice. WoL hears it most clearly - it warns of an impending Calamity, Light expunging all life, says only the WoL can prevent it, and demands the WoL "throw wide the gates." Thancred goes into a coma as a result. Kan-E Senna says his soul is no longer present in his body, and the phenomenon was the soul being "called" away. For some reason everyone is a lot more focused on the headaches happening at all than what the voice said to WoL? Ok, seems important, but sure.
    I have a suspicion that this is more Ascian intervention. My guess here is that Elidibus has convinced Arbert of the imminence of a Calamity of Light - rightly or wrongly - prompting him to contact you, and insist that you open the passage for his return. It's unclear, this could even be direct Ascian manipulation, but this is not Lahabrea, Nabriales or Igeyorhm we're dealing with, but a far more subtle thinker, and our character was sympathetic to Arbert's plight, and therefore may take the bait. Of course, this may all be Arbert's own doing out of genuine conviction. There's a number of possibilities here, and any number of variables may or may not hold true. If it is Zodiark, and there is truly a Calamity of Light looming, and we're not fully apprised of his nature, this would fit with another hypothesis of mine. I agree that the time compression comments are reminiscent of Zodiark, but at the same time, they could also be what his Emissary or champions would say. Of course, the interceptions come at critical moments, but this may all relate to that "glint" of darkness Temulun saw, allowing an agent of darkness insight into the Scions' actions and the ability to beckon to them.

    Epilogue: Zenos, confirmed to definitely be Elidibus, pushes Varis to give the word to commence the invasion of Ala Mhigo. Varis refuses to speak to him, and Elidibus walks away. Another figure comes out from the shadows, revealed to be Varis' dead grandfather, the previous emperor, Solus. He is revealed to have been an Ascian the entire time, the Empire founded for the explicit purpose of sowing chaos.
    This was a HUGE one, especially after SE had stated in the past that the eminence grise behind Garlemald was not Ascian in nature. Apparently, it is. I think this may explain why Varis has been playing along. It's not so much that he sought out or sought to out-play Elidibus, but rather that the Ascians had been invested and well placed to act within the Empire all along. Hence, it would not be too difficult for Elidibus to ferry out grand-daddy, reveal some hard truths about the Empire, and see if Varis will convert to his cause. If not, blackmail is another route. Varis does not have any liking for the Ascians, or what is going on around him, but he appears cornered. I had thought that his personal guard might respond to Zenos's orders as well as his, and this was confirmed. I just wonder, now, how much of Stormblood can be explained through Elidibus having a hold over Varis? It would explain the imperial mainland's relative passivity whilst Zenos suffered two defeats, and also the zeal with which the Populares were dispatched. My thoughts, based on the words Elidibus used when face-dancing, was that it may have begun with gentle words and promises but later transmogrified into outright blackmail. I am interested in what means Varis possesses, exactly, to realise the Ascians' goal, when this new Ascian says (to paraphrase), "by your own hands".

    On Moose's point about restoring the world to its original state, my thinking is that Varis's reticence suggests he is no longer willing to work with the Ascians but has little choice. What I believe "Solus" is doing is trying to get him to internalise the Ascian point of view on the matter. Alternatively: he is re-casting Varis's internalised goal (the Empire's, of eradicating the Eikon threat) in the same light as the Ascians' goal, of restoring the world to its original balance. This could be why Varis is so thoroughly displeased.

    The question of when Solus became Ascian possessed is also interesting, or that an Ascian would choose a Garlean pureblood, unable as they are to wield the aether. It is likely, in my view, that they have had knowledge of how to impart their echo - the "Resonance" - for quite some time, and began with Solus, some time before he became Emperor - likely in the stage of his life where the Ascian has "frozen" him. It does raise the question of "when", but my suspicion is that the Ascians stood back and waited to see how the Garleans fared and sided with the "winner"; I suspect nudges early on in the Republic days, more than outright control here. If the lore on Goug confirms that they are the ancestors of the Garleans, the Ascians might have seen in the Purebloods something special - perhaps their unique aetheric situation makes it much harder for Hydaelyn to "eject" the true-form Ascians from their bodies, especially ones gifted with the Echo/Resonance. Major Ardyn vibes!

    Epilogue 2: Alphinaud and Gaius come upon a remote resistance camp, at which the poison "Black Rose" was deployed, killing everyone there. They decide the Ascians did this and resolve to stop them. Again.
    Good luck, is all I can say.

    I am of the view that the Ascians, as we know them, are limited to an extent by the capabilities of their hosts; for example, how Lahabrea was ejected from Thancred due to Hydaelyn, but also when Igeyorhm excoriates her mortal body's "fragility". Both "Zenos" and "Solus" have been likely re-fashioned into as close as you can get to an ideal host for their Ascian "buddies". "Solus's" injection into the plotline makes me think Elidibus has much farther to go, and "Solus" is likelier to be the baddy we face in 5.0. After all, even Y'shtola, a Scion with the Echo, was flummoxed by channeling the amount of aether she did in the Steppes. So perhaps some "preparation" can assist an Ascian in perfecting their posession over a host to greater heights. "Zenos", after all, states he possesses the means to end the Eikon-slayer, in his "adamant" form. I doubt he's just bluffing, seeing what Zenos without Elidibus could do.

    The patch has, in classic SE style (as of late), introduced plenty of unknowns into the equation.

    Big ones for me are:

    *What, exactly, happened when Y'shtola flooded the Burn with aetheric energy? There were vague snapshots of scenery like the Chrysalis, and as the above-quoted, is Temulun right about seeing a glint of darkness in you? Is this what allowed for the Scions to be intercepted so?
    *Where is the real Zenos? What role will he play? Will Elidibus lure him with the promise of final death? He may help us land a killing blow on grand-daddy but I suspect he will meet his final demise at Elidibus's hand.
    *Just what is the extent of Allagan involvement in the House of the Crooked Coin? Are all the Au Ra's beliefs premised on a lie, or did the Allagan go there due to an abundance of aether, rather than creating what would later be deified? These have been long-standing questions/issues with the Allagan. ALL godly involvement could ultimately resolve to their own machinations, or to eikons.
    *Do Sadu and Magnai possess the Echo? They both seem very powerful in their own right, and able to go toe-to-toe with the Scions/WoL.
    *When will Magnai get his Nhaama, and when will the Buduga get their Hien?

    Predictions:

    *There is indeed the threat of a twin calamity. The unknown is who will we meet when we throw wide the floodgates, which I believe we will. My bet is still on Arbert, as it is too early for Zodiark, and he is still guided by Elidibus. I don't doubt Elidibus on the point that both light and darkness can run in excess. My own hypothesis is also that we have a poor understanding of the true nature of either divinity. We may see ourselves working with Arbert, possibly Elidibus and a very slight chance of it being Zodiark.
    *When we head to Garlemald, we will find ourselves allying with Varis, who in turn will probably come to work with the Populares. I had thought they might kill him off but as the Eorzean Alliance said, a war of succession would be costly and de-stabilise the Ascians' plans. I don't think they want to incur that risk. They're likelier to imprison him, if the need should arise.
    *Elidibus will not die anytime soon, but "Solus" might be destroyed if he pushes too far early in the next expansion.
    *We might see a Scion - probably Thancred - lost for good. This could mean as a permanent host for an Ascian, or simply blank inside.
    *Magnai finds out his Nhaama was standing right next to him, all along - Daidukul!

    All in all, I really enjoyed the patch and the degree to which it showcased how devious the Ascians are. Also really hoping they keep up this new guy's Ardyn vibe! Genuinely impressed by SE exceeding 4.3 in the lore department.
    (5)
    Last edited by Lauront; 09-19-2018 at 07:40 AM. Reason: dumb errors
    When the game's story becomes self-aware:


  4. #4
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    On Ascian forms:

    One of the things I'd previously assumed was that Ascians are always possessing *someone* to be able to manifest in their normal forms, but now I don't think it's necessarily the case. What particularly set me wondering is the aftermath of the Chrysalis, where we see Nabriales dead on the floor and then he emerges from it again - identical but he hasn't taken over a new body, so what is happening?

    From this I wondered if they can have two states:
    1. pure aetherial form - looks solid but functionally a ghost
    2. possessing a body - gives them solid form, may or may not be able to "reshape" the body to their true appearance, or use it as-is to imitate the original person. (Alternately the 'ghost' retains the host's appearance even after splitting, or maybe they just tend to 'target' people that look like them if they need a new body.)

    After seeing the scene with Solus - particularly the fact that Varis shot him and he rematerialises immediately, while his previous body remains lying there - set me to wondering that same thing again, with the addition of trying to make sense of how Solus could have been an old man and now is not. Suppose if an Ascian possesses a living body, and that body is still fully human and continues to grow and age? So at some point "Solus the Ascian" possessed the real Solus, and it's only after dying that he's now free to resume his original Ascian form? Though it's still a Garlean appearance... Could the original Solus be "turned Ascian" and now his permanent aetherial appearance reflects the age he was when it happened?

    It's all a bit messy.
    (9)

  5. #5
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Amaurot
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    Tristain Archambeau
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    Cerberus
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    Black Mage Lv 90
    On that point...

    Hmmm... they probably have the ability to assume a host's guise, particularly if it's relevant to their schemes. They certainly have great control over their own forms, even when possessing another host, as we saw with the Ascian Prime, which was the synthetic fusion of two Ascians via the Echo. I would not be surprised if they could cause the body to re-materialise if it was not killed to a degree capable of ejecting them.
    (1)
    Last edited by Lauront; 09-19-2018 at 07:06 AM.
    When the game's story becomes self-aware:


  6. #6
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Bismarck
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    Red Mage Lv 100
    It’s not quite the same though.

    Its not just the same body rematerialising though - the Ascian reappears or emerges from the body in the same visible form while the “killed body” continues to lie there on the floor.
    (5)

  7. #7
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Tristain Archambeau
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    Black Mage Lv 90
    I mean re-materialise as in create a simulacrum of it - not restore the original corpse. So we're in agreement on it not being the same. I'm uncertain on what exactly their limits are as long as they remain in the driver seat in regards to the host body. Re-constituting it as a simulacrum appears to be within their means, as we know that they require a host to manifest on this star.
    (2)
    Last edited by Lauront; 09-19-2018 at 07:42 AM.
    When the game's story becomes self-aware:


  8. #8
    Player
    Remedi's Avatar
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    Remedi Maxwell
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    Cerberus
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    Goldsmith Lv 90
    about msq........
    Maybe it's just because of the recent memeing but....... when I saw solus I thought that the nortification plague had reached FFXIV too
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Matthieu Desrosiers
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    Cerberus
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    Reaper Lv 90
    The Black Rose:

    Gaius suspects that the Ascians are responsible for making use of the Black Rose. This could very well be true, though I reckon there's another viable alternative. Zenos. The original one, that is. He did have access to pretty much everything in Ala Mhigo after all...and he's depraved enough to use it on a whim, perhaps in an effort to lure the Warrior of Light for another confrontation in the hope that he can get the true death that he desires? Even if the original Zenos is unrelated to the use of the poison, the fact that he did not show up at all in the latest batch of MSQ's makes me even more certain that he'll be dealt with as the final boss of 4.5 - as a loose end to tie up.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    Chewy2nd's Avatar
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    Ul'dah
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    Character
    Dia Lancea
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 100
    MSQ Spoilers
    Makes a lot more sense why Varis spat on Solus' coffin in this scene now

    https://youtu.be/_ZnGS60aRIM

    I wonder when Varis discovered? I reckon Solus was the one who told him to go to war with his Uncle
    (9)

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