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  1. #141
    Player
    Penthea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,664
    Character
    Nettle Creidne
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra View Post
    I was arguing about the OP's responsibility, you were arguing about the need for more notifications. It was relevant towards your argument solely, but not mine, and I wasn't even arguing about more or less notifications to begin with. You brought that one up on your own regarding the sprouts. There was two different arguments going on at the same time apparently because I was just for the OP alone.
    I see how OP's situation highlights an issue with how information about demolition is presented in the game. And you think the only focus is OP. Same issue but I'm looking at the bigger picture.

    And no I wasn't really saying we need more notifications. I was saying they need to be presented at a different time. I later thought about the little quest I mentioned in my previous post. But I don't think that would be needed if the notification was displayed at a much more appropriate time than it is now.
    (2)

  2. #142
    Player
    Rymm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    901
    Character
    Rymmrael Bhaldraelwyn
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by R-Pete-G View Post
    Was it a ploy after all?
    No clue if the original reddit threads that kicked the whole thing off were made to troll or not (though I certainly have my suspicions) but there has yet to be one, single, substantiated case of someone's house getting auto-demoed before it should have. People were more than willing to type up long winded posts either ranting or sympathy-fishing but I think there was one, maybe two, actual bug reports made to SE about the supposed problem.
    (2)

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  3. #143
    Player
    Skivvy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    4,178
    Character
    Boo Box
    World
    Rafflesia
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by R-Pete-G View Post
    I appreciate that this thread is now quite long, so it's not a criticism to you personally, but everything you raised has already been covered and at this point I'd just be repeating myself.

    That part did make me chuckle though - the blinkered disbelief that I could somehow not have known about this feature, and so you seem suspicious that this is some kind of strange ruse? Remarkable.
    I don't understand why people are having a hard time with this. It's not that far fetched to think that someone may just play a game, enjoy their time while there, and that be it. There doesn't have to be more information seeking outside of their in-game enjoyment.

    For myself, the 'general chat' section of the forums is about as far as my out-of-game experience goes. I miss just about all live-letters, initial patch announcements, letters/comments from Yoshi, etc. If it's been mentioned in the general chat, I may catch it, but not always. Most of the time I don't even notice what is in the launcher news.

    The level of involvement in this game will vary from person to person. Some people will hunt for every last scrap of information they can find from the various websites and what not, but it is not a requirement to play a game.

    With something as big as house demolitions, it should be brought to the player's attention IN-GAME. And not hidden behind a bunch of menus. Email notification is a good step for SE, but based on recent threads, it seems like that is even breaking down ATM. They're quite fond of pop-ups, perhaps they could enable something similar for housing.
    (5)
    Last edited by Skivvy; 09-17-2018 at 09:09 AM.

  4. #144
    Player
    Sigma-Astra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,085
    Character
    Soma Kagami
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Emstidor View Post
    Sigma, I guess I just don't follow why it's so important that we establish that OP is partially at fault (he is, he even acknowledges it). Nobody in this thread has advocated for OP to get his house back, including himself. If you also agree that more visible warnings and notifications about impending demolitions would be a net good thing (which is the entire point of his feedback), then what exactly does OP's degree of fault change?
    Way in the beginning, we had people advocating otherwise and then when newer people came in and say "what a terrible thing SE has done to you" or "what about this person not being able to read the notes" or "what about this..etc", it starts to sound like an awful lot of deflecting and defending that even if some of the things SE does is often not smart, that it's also okay for the players to just throw all of their mistakes and weight onto the system entirely, which isn't wholly correct rather than just saying, "It's not right, but you weren't being incredibly smart or responsible about it either".

    The reason we have the timers is because of people who buy homes and then never do a thing with them for ages when someone else might really want them. And, there's a disclaimer before you place down every object usually that warns you if the home is destroyed, it will be destroyed as well. A small portion of it lies on SE, but I feel a larger portion lies on the OP.

    In my opinion, you just can't depend on a game giving you critical information all of the time, especially with an MMO where they've got so much stuff to go over with you. Maybe it's just because I played RO a lot back then and it barely told you anything so you had to learn from outside sources or other people what to do. A lot of people don't like being bombarded with tutorial after tutorial either, so there's the other half of that coin as well. Could they make the information more apparent? Sure. But, to say the information is non-existent simply because it's not in-game is kind of wrong to say at the very least.

    It's really just hard to please everyone inside of an MMO truthfully and there's no such thing as a perfect one. It's best to not expect perfection from something constantly changing on a whim.

    We can argue that this would have never happened if the information was made more apparent in-game by SE. Sure.

    We can also argue that this would have never happened if the OP was more proactive and took the 2 minutes he spent playing Cactpot to Google some things as well about housing.

    We can argue about both really.
    (5)
    Last edited by Sigma-Astra; 09-17-2018 at 09:38 AM.

  5. #145
    Player
    Sigma-Astra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,085
    Character
    Soma Kagami
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Penthea View Post
    I see how OP's situation highlights an issue with how information about demolition is presented in the game. And you think the only focus is OP. Same issue but I'm looking at the bigger picture.
    Well, it's probably because until the OP's thread came along, I've barely heard any complaints about the auto-demolition timer and how the information is presented. So, you'll have to excuse me if I find a standalone case of something going terribly wrong for only one person right now that it's a suddenly much larger problem that needs immediate attention.

    It's hard not to be a little skeptical, you know?
    (4)

  6. #146
    Player
    Penthea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,664
    Character
    Nettle Creidne
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra View Post
    Well, it's probably because until the OP's thread came along, I've barely heard any complaints about the auto-demolition timer and how the information is presented. So, you'll have to excuse me if I find a standalone case of something going terribly wrong for only one person right now that it's a suddenly much larger problem that needs immediate attention.

    It's hard not to be a little skeptical, you know?
    Actually on reddit you find posts fairly often about people losing their house due to being unaware of the timer or misunderstanding how it works (usually this means they think visiting their garden is enough). Less so these days but I suspect it's because Pagos wasn't exactly a great hit and people are just waiting for 4.4.

    I understand the scepticism but at this point between all the posts I read about people being unaware of the timer or how it actually works, and the large amount of people I have personally explained it to including many who have been playing longer than me, I truly think there is an issue with how the information is presented in the game. It just doesn't make sense to have something so important presented at a time when the player isn't interacting with the system for purchasing a house. Especially when in most cases this now means they're low lvl sprouts who barely know how the game works. They're not likely to remember something about content they won't be able to interact with for a very long time.
    (3)

  7. #147
    Player
    Voodoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    23
    Character
    Voodoo Priestess
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 60

    See you and good luck

    SE is not gonna tell these things you need to keep up to date. All your fault, not SE.
    (4)

  8. #148
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    496
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra View Post

    In my opinion, you just can't depend on a game giving you critical information all of the time, especially with an MMO where they've got so much stuff to go over with you. Maybe it's just because I played RO a lot back then and it barely told you anything so you had to learn from outside sources or other people what to do. A lot of people don't like being bombarded with tutorial after tutorial either, so there's the other half of that coin as well. Could they make the information more apparent? Sure. But, to say the information is non-existent simply because it's not in-game is kind of wrong to say at the very least.

    It's really just hard to please everyone inside of an MMO truthfully and there's no such thing as a perfect one. It's best to not expect perfection from something constantly changing on a whim.

    We can argue that this would have never happened if the information was made more apparent in-game by SE. Sure.

    We can also argue that this would have never happened if the OP was more proactive and took the 2 minutes he spent playing Cactpot to Google some things as well about housing.

    We can argue about both really.
    I want to add on to her post and bring this idea to other parts of the game. If this wasn't about a house but about being kicked from a raid, dungeon, party everyone here will be saying a differnt tune. How many times do we tell people to do their homework? Read your tooltips, go watch guides, learn the mechs? 90% of all that means you're looking at stuff outside the game. So why is housing no different? Why is housing or in this case here so different that it's all SE's fault. I agree with Sigma 100% If you are invested in this game then it takes more than just ingame stuff to get the job done, thats what we ask for players in battle content.... it should be the same for housing content as well. Cause noone will be saying this if this were savage or raid or dungeons or rotations. You don't believe me? Go to tales of a dutyfinder and 90% of those complaints are fro mpeople complaining people not doing their homework and making runs horrible. So I don't think Sigma is wrong here in her opinion.
    (4)

  9. #149
    Player
    XiXiQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    809
    Character
    Xixi Eclipse
    World
    Ravana
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    I don't think houses belonging to an active subscription should be demolished at all. The original problem was houses sitting around empty for months and months that belonged to accounts that weren't active. There's no need to have active players jumping through hoops to keep their housing. Worry about those lasped subscriptions instead.
    (2)

  10. #150
    Player
    Penthea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,664
    Character
    Nettle Creidne
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ko_ View Post
    I want to add on to her post and bring this idea to other parts of the game. If this wasn't about a house but about being kicked from a raid, dungeon, party everyone here will be saying a differnt tune. How many times do we tell people to do their homework? Read your tooltips, go watch guides, learn the mechs? 90% of all that means you're looking at stuff outside the game. So why is housing no different?
    Maybe because housing isn't high end combat and no one is relying on you to do things correctly? Losing your house doesn't make your neighbour lose their house. But messing up in combat can ruin the fight for everyone. Raids are a team effort, private housing usually is not.
    (3)

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