Red Mage Changes

[Bhearil]

Based by my calculations rdm will gain around 200 dps and summoner lose half of radiant shield utility so rdm can catch summoner around 350 dps, it is pretty big buff for rdm.

I agree its a pretty nice buff, just hope its enough since the support part wasnt touched.

[gumas]

Just saw the (preliminary) patch, i dont see anything change on RDM, just increase potency buff thats it.

[Sunako]

Just saw the (preliminary) patch, i dont see anything change on RDM, just increase potency buff thats it.

Not only that, that radiant shield change make summoner lose around 150 dps.

[Sylvain]

I hope you guys are right because the buff doesn't seem like enough.

I really was hoping for more, like 320 for thunder/aero and 290-300 for fire/earth

The fact smn was nerf will indeed help.

Perhaps I should try to convince our smn to swap to rdm since he can't pull off good numbers anyway.

[Maero]

Well i mean smn in my opinion was still too strong and has seen much love while finally they decided to look at Red Mage.
It may seem like good buffs but i guess we will actually see the outcome, i would have preferred better changes to embolden that would benefit everyone not just select jobs.

And also thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread, it's good to discuss

[C_River]

Nerfing SMN won't make RDM/BLM automatically good. Why any caster would want SMN nerfed (aka kicked off the comp) is beyond me because it's just further proof that no lessons are being learned up at SE. It doesn't actually make anything better. What all casters should want is a hard push to break the whole DRG/BRD/NIN triad. Its like the physical jobs get perfect buffs for each other while the 3 casters are too busy fight over the scraps to realize that they are all getting the shaft.

[EllieShadeflare]

Nerfing SMN won't make RDM/BLM automatically good. Why any caster would want SMN nerfed (aka kicked off the comp) is beyond me because it's just further proof that no lessons are being learned up at SE. It doesn't actually make anything better. What all casters should want is a hard push to break the whole DRG/BRD/NIN triad. Its like the physical jobs get perfect buffs for each other while the 3 casters are too busy fight over the scraps to realize that they are all getting the shaft.

I know that there's already been a few responses, and while you are correct about the Triad, you don't seem to fully understand the actual problem people have had with SMN.

Summoner is quite frankly the perfect DPS as far as FFXIV is concerned. It has

A. Excellent damage.
B. Decent support capabilities (albeit, not as much as dedicated supports like NIN, BRD and MCH, but still enough to pull its weight by giving a universal 2% damage increase, a further 2% for physical classes (which helps in the physical meta) and a further 10% for magic classes (since pet dancing is actually viable))
C. Almost Red Mage levels of mobility without losing out on most of their damage.

Point A. is handled under three points:

I: Whether you like it or not, their DoTs generate far more damage than one would like to admit. Applying both is a 100 DPT (Damage per tic) and between spreading it with Bane, using them to trigger Fester, and using Tri-Disaster which also gives a pseudo-DoT in Ruination (by buffing Ruin spells by 20 potency), there is no reason you won't have that 100 potency on your targets. The only other class with as good DoTs in the game is Bard, but that class also happens to be on the lower end of pure damage on its own.

II: Their pets are free damage, even with their slight decrease in damage versus the caster... though, this can be mitigated by Enkindle, Bahamut, and Rouse. Also, the pets dealing damage also decrease the CD of Enkindle, as well as grant Ruin IV, for further DPS boosts.

III: Their oGCD game is also quite impressive, even as a Caster. Compared to most other classes, Summoner can unleash a whopping 900 potency every minute through Fester (all three of which within 15 seconds), a Deathflare in that same minute for another 300 potency (that's also an AoE with dropoff) all on top of their DoTs and potential Ruin IVs. Within two minutes, they can get 1800 potency from Fester, 600 potency from Deathflare... and almost 1400 potency from Akh Morn. There might be some pet damage reduction for Akh Morn, but it's still an impressive amount for two minutes. By comparison, Red Mage can only get 840 from Fleche and (currently) 300 from Contre Sexte, without DoTs and only their (albeit, potent) spells for damage in that minute. Within two minutes, Fleche becomes 2940 potency (with 7.2 casts in that two minutes, rounding down to 7), and 1200 potency from Contre Sexte. Summoner outpaces Red Mage in a minute in oGCDs by 60, but is SLIGHTLY outpaced by Red Mage in two minute by 340 potency. On the surface? That doesn't seem so bad. But... because their pets and DoTs also exist, alongside inbuilt (and good) support options, Summoner will STILL outpace Red Mage in the long run. Note that I removed Enkindle from the equation because of both the pet damage decrease and the fact that its cooldown is variable due to the Enkindle Mastery trait.

IV: In addition to all of the above, Summoners can quite literally "always be casting". Not only because they're only stuck to 2.5s base cast times while Black Mage often has 2.8s cast times, but they only lose 20 potency per cast when they DO move, where as Black Mage goes all the way down to 100 potency over (currently) 555 potency unless Triple/Swiftcasting and Red Mage outright lack an instant cast outside of Swiftcast or Dualcasts. Unless of course, your pet procs Ruin IV, then you just get back the potency you would have lost plus interest. And while in Dreadwyrm Trance? Not only do you gain a boost in damage for Ruin III, but it also becomes Instant Cast itself, further decreasing the risk of movement. With DoTs in place, and their pet attacking, a Summoner gets about 300 potency per 3 seconds, Red Mage 285 potency per three seconds (the average of Verstone/Impact/Verfire and Verthunder/Veraero) and Black Mage 555. Red Mage has objectively worse support options than SMN, but still deals less damage, and Black Mage won't inflict enough damage to make up for the support options that SMN provides to other classes, since 5/8 of them will be getting a 2% * 2% increase from Devotion+Radiant Shield, and 3/8 (including the summoner) will get a 2% * 10% increase from Devotion+Contagion, not to mention Black Mage doesn't rez.

The physical meta's problem has to do with support options rather than "these classes deal so much damage, oooo yeah~". Even WITH the nerf, SMN will still more likely have a place in the meta than Red Mage and Black Mage due to increasing with the other multipliers. Red Mage's boost might give it a chance with its crappy Embolden and its decent damage, and maybe Black Mage's damage + filler will give it a fighting chance too, but Summoner will not lose its place unless something serious happens to the class as a whole and not just "oops we lost the reflect potency from Radiant Shield!".

[Bhearil]

Problem is that SMN is right now broken being the strongest magic damage dealer plus having utility to boot. They buffed RDM and BLM while nerfing SMN that was too good, dont see whats the issue with that

You can keep buffing all classes until they are on par but that creates balance problems by forcing entire game difficulty to go up or risk people falling asleep while playing due to being too easy after the buffs and also instead of regulating a few jobs you are forced to upgrade EVERY jobs but those that are on the top. No dev is gonna bother buffing most of the jobs jobs at once when they can just tone down the ones that are out of hand and only buff the ones underperforming

Physical meta is another issue

[Eloah]

I wanna know how RDMs AoE is buffed with these changes. That's what I heard they were falling behind in AoE. Yeah Contre Sixte was buffed, but that feels minor compared to a 10 potency buff to Scatter.

[Ryallen]

I wanna know how RDMs AoE is buffed with these changes. That's what I heard they were falling behind in AoE. Yeah Contre Sixte was buffed, but that feels minor compared to a 10 potency buff to Scatter.

I think that Contre Sixte was mostly what they meant by "AoE buff" but, in theory, the buffs to Enhanced Scatter is supposed to make it easier to get Enhanced Moulinet, which is a 200 potency conal AoE.