Request for general advice for being good at playing

[KaivaC]

So after the last week or so, I have come to the conclusion that I need some advice about how to actually become a better player in Eorzea. I’ve had some…not so fun runs that really make me wonder where I’m going wrong here. Generally, I keep to myself, unless I’m in a social instance, then I’ll offer help if needed. I try not to bother other people and I push myself to actually be a better player every time I log in.

Problem is, I have runs, which I will mention in a second that make me wonder what more am I able to do. Posted these in the DF vent thread, but just to add some context, I’ll just tldr it here. Had a run as a NIN on Ravana HM in which I didn’t think about Diversion – that was definitely on me, because eventually when the main tank died, I was next on the aggro list and got hit with the cleave. The rest of the raid wiped shortly after that, and I got hit with the blame on that one for even having aggro in the first place. I apologized and told the raid that I would pop diversion, since it was honestly my mistake for not doing that. Got kicked before the next pull.

Other situation – Sigmascape 1 Normal. In my mind, as I was still re-familiarizing myself with everything, I delayed my Trick Attack until after Head-On. The main shirked me for the Doom Strike for it, and the healer eventually Rescued me into a Ghost. The raid group said as much.

This isn’t so much as a request for DPS help as it is a request for advice on what I need to do to improve. Sorry if this is a little bit vague, just a bit slightly frustrated. I could probably elaborate some more on what I’m asking if this doesn’t really make any sense. Really, I just want to be a good player overall – again, not exclusive to DPS…just being a good player period. Any advice would really help right now.

[Magic-Mal]

The first scenario wasn't your fault at all. 8-man teams have 2 tanks and 2 healers. First of all, in Ravana Hard Mode, the main tank should've never died in the first place so either they failed hard on tanking or both healers failed hard on healing, or both at the same time. Second, the off-tank should've had Provoke ready to get aggro. If they didn't provoke, they failed as a tank completely. And lastly, there's no reason why everyone else should've died because there were 2 healers and not one raised anybody? The tank never Provoked? You got a group of jerks there. Especially to kick you over it. Most likely the tank who died and was embarrassed over it.

The 2nd scenario is simply another group of jerks but they also grief'd you badly. Sounds reportable honestly.

[BillyKaplan]

Like Mal said, there was absolutely nothing you could've done in either situation. The first time you completely owned up to your mistake and learned from it, but even after the MT dying it was 100% a fully recoverable situation. OT should've provoked, and the healers should've gotten the MT up asap, but it sounds like they were more busy with blaming you than actually doing their jobs.

The second story I already replied to you int he DF threat but again, that was some serious griefing on both the tanks and healers.

My best advice to you is such - remember that no matter your own attitude, there will be bad players in this game. Worse, there will be bad people in this game. Sadly, they can and will interfere with your gaming experience. If you think there's anything to learn from it, like you did end up learning from both instances, take that and move on. Take a deep breath. Have a drink. Wash your face. Remind yourself this is a game, and they're jerks. Then smile and thank them for sparing you further time to be spent in their presence by kicking you.

[KaivaC]

True, but in both those scenarios, I messed up in an area that put a big target on me, so I'm looking for ways to avoid things like this in the future. I'm not necessarily asking for things like rotations - I practice that on my main job and my backup job on a daily basis. Unless I just happen to have a gigantic target on my back that just follows me, no matter what character I am on, I'm generally wondering what I need to do to avoid being the target of stuff like this when it happens. One or two times, fine, I can brush it off. But then it happened a third time yesterday. Sensing a pattern here that I'm generally messing up to the point that players feel like they should jump on my case.

I guess what I'm asking of the forum is what in particular should I be on the lookout for, as a DPS, and probably as a tank too, to avoid having a fourth scenario is less than a month. Again, I do generally keep to myself and try not to attract any attention to myself whatsoever in duties (aside from greetings and maybe a compliment here and there). Watching aggro, I get. Know mechanics completely and don't hold back your opener, I also get. Holding mobs at all times and prioritize hate over DPS as a tank, I get that as well. But it feels like with my running into a third situation, I'm running into the problem that I'm doing something in fights that is irritating other players. So I want to eliminate as much of that as I possibly can.

Like Mal said, there was absolutely nothing you could've done in either situation. The first time you completely owned up to your mistake and learned from it, but even after the MT dying it was 100% a fully recoverable situation. OT should've provoked, and the healers should've gotten the MT up asap, but it sounds like they were more busy with blaming you than actually doing their jobs.

The second story I already replied to you int he DF threat but again, that was some serious griefing on both the tanks and healers.

My best advice to you is such - remember that no matter your own attitude, there will be bad players in this game. Worse, there will be bad people in this game. Sadly, they can and will interfere with your gaming experience. If you think there's anything to learn from it, like you did end up learning from both instances, take that and move on. Take a deep breath. Have a drink. Wash your face. Remind yourself this is a game, and they're jerks. Then smile and thank them for sparing you further time to be spent in their presence by kicking you.

I dunno...I mean, maybe I'm a little too bothered by this, but I can't help but wonder. I do appreciate the comments from that thread. It's just that after every run like this, I will be like 'What can I do to be better'.

[Vidu]

I will be like 'What can I do to be better'.

This answer my "suck", but: That is something that will come naturally with practise and being more and more familiar with the fight and the job you're doing it on.
Billy is right: Even if the run went flawless, everyone in that group could have probably done something at least a little bit better.

Awarness of everything thats going on comes once you can focus on everything thats going on, because you dont have to focus on your rotation anymore.
I dont believe you can enforce that in any way, sorry.

The best advice I can give you here is: Keep doing what you did in that Phantom Train run. Well, not the way you did the opener there, because I believe someone explained (in an actual polite and respective manner, the only one you should listen to) that it wasnt optimal. But keep your mind open to try things that you think could work (better) than what you did before. And then compare and see which one actually was better.

Reflect about the runs you're doing and note what you can improve but also what you did pretty good at already! You wont improve if you dont notice that you're already half way there!

[ko_]

Honestly.... you didn't do anything wrong. So there's nothing to really improve on other then finding better people to play with. And suing the second example into the ground. That's some bogus shit if you ask me.

[BillyKaplan]

Other than having rotten luck to keep being placed into horrible, toxic groups, I can't think of a thing. Chances are, even if you had kept up Diversion at Ravana, given that the MT died and the OT didn't provoke (I highly doubt they were after you in agro, because it doesn't sound like Ravana went to them after you died), we'd have reached the same conclusion as you did before. The biggest difference is that they'd have blamed someone else, if not still you, only this time you wouldn't have done anything wrong at all.

And the Griefing party on Phantom Train... they're missing a couple of marbles, seriously.

The sad state of affairs is that some people want victims. They'll latch onto the stupidest, most insignificant reasons. None of this was your fault, so you asking for advice is seriously a trap. Run with FC or a static? I really don't know what else to tell you, other than how sorry I am that you had to go through that.

It's just that after every run like this, I will be like 'What can I do to be better'.

In and of itself, that's a pretty good attitude to have. Even if the run went perfectly, chances are you could've done some better, reacted faster, did something else. Everything we do, we can improve in. But it's also important to keep things in proportions, and to remember that sometimes, the answer can also be "nothing. There was nothing I could have done better in that situation".

[Vidu]

The first thing you need to do is to STOP going down this rabbit hole again immdiatly, Kaiva. And thats very specific advice for you.

The second you need to realise is that this is a game thats meant to be fun first. Its good that you worry about being a good player and about your DPS, but I firmely believe that you cant achieve either when you're stressing about it. Everyone is at their best, when they're relaxed! I know its easier said than done, but try to relax about your performance a bit more. You dont need to be toptier and if its fun to you to try to tweak rotations a bit or figure out wether or not there is a better way in a certain situation, then go for it.

The third: You should first work on your self-confidence. You're very, very good at spotting mistakes you're making, but not so great at actually seeing that others are at fault too, maybe even a lot more than you.
I used to be extremly insecure aswell, but I was lucky enough to have some amazing friends who always informed me immdiatly when it wasnt me who messed up the whole thing.
MT dying? Not your fault, not your responsibility. OT not being second in aggro? Its his job to make sure that he is, not yours.
Yes, diversion is a very useful skill and you should make use of that to help your tank(s). It is still their job to ensure that they're maintaning aggro.
The other group were just plain jerks and several people have told you that by now.
Being able to spot jerks like that and to reflect on wether you are actually at fault or at least are to a degree at fault that varrants their behaviour (little hint: Unless you're griefing, trolling and insulting them, it never does) is an important skill for a good player who can actually enjoy their time in Eorzea.

Little story off myself: I was doing trials roulette with some friends at the end of HW. We got Nidhogg NM, I was a tank and suggested that we'd kill the roaming dragon first. I got yelled at pretty badly both for suggesting that and for not tanking said dragon (I found out later that you kill that dragon last in the EX-Mode, which makes sense because of the debuff, but that debuff isnt present in the NM. No reason to keep the dragon roaming and annoying everyone...). They berated me for a couple of minutes, I was having a bad day to begin with and I quite the party and the game for a few hours to pick myself up again. But even though they called me "the worst tank they'd ever seen" I knew that that was simply not true and they were wrong both about the assessment of my skill and about their strategy.

So first thing you need to ask yourself: How much was it really my fault that thing X happend?
In the Ravana case you're pretty far down on the "being at fault list" in my book:
1) Healer number 1 for not keeping the MT alive
2) Healer number 2 for not keeping the MT alive
3) The MT for not using his CDs properly (if he died to a tankbuster, he becomes number 1 actually)
4) The OT for not being second in aggro or provoking right away

5) Maaaaaybe you for not turning Ravana when you werent expecting to having to do that in the first place. At the same likelyhood: Everyone else for not getting their behinds out of Ravanas cleave the moment they noticed that he turned into the group.

You need to notice when its really you messing up BIG time before you start blaming yourself for every little mistake that may or may not have contributed to a wipe. If you have to, tell yourself that you're freaking amazing and completly above mistakes, before you start the assessment to find little ways to actually improve.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Now a bit more general advice:

1) Personally I found it always helpful to let my party know if I'm not super familiar or comfortable with the job I'm on right now. Usually with a bit of a lighthearted vibe to it - "Hey, its been a while since I played ninja! Still trying to get (back) into it, any advice would be welcome!" - you obviously need to read the room a little for that and make sure you dont practise a job you're unfamiliar with in an O8S-farm, but that should be obvious.

2) Make yourself familiar with your support-skills and make good and proper use of them!

3) Run dungeons, trials etc. on a class that you can play in your sleep first, so you can pay real attention to the mechanics. Once you have those down, you can switch to a class you're less familiar with. Again: I would let my party know that its my first time doing this content on this job. Communication is key - I know for myself that I often expect people to perform a certain way in certain content, because I wrongfully assume that because they reached level 70 on that job they're experts now. And that while I'm a level 70 dragoon myself and I dont know s*it about dragoon and how to play that properly. Heck, I dont know how to play ninja either and that job has some Savage-gear pieces, so anyone seeing that would assume that I know what I'm doing. I dont. Shuting those expectations down right away is helpful and I found that people are more open to help if you are being "honest" with them.

...in general: for a more pleasent experience, I would recommend communication, communication, communication. Even with random DF-people. Little jokes, little encouragments when stuff goes slightly wrong really helps to keep jerkish or unfriendly behaviour at bay.

4) Practise, practise, practise - I know thats not super helpful advice, but what I mean by that is: If you practise your rotation and are able to play your class in your sleep, you have more time to notice whats going on on the battlefield and you can react better and faster.
On my bard I'd probably noticed that I was second in Ravanas aggrolist and dumbed my aggro. On my ninja? No chance.

...and with that, I'll circle back to one of my earlier points: I do think of myself as a good player, at least depending on the job I'm on. Random people in the DF dont define me, which allows me to actually improve instead of worrying about my performance the whole time.
Do that! Improve! Take any chance you can get! Practise on a dummy, watch a guide to really understand a fight, ask for advice!
But while doing that keep in mind that its a game after all. No one dies when you wipe. A wipe doesnt justify abusive behaviour and chances are that the wipe wasnt even your fault or at least not your fault alone.

I wish you the best of luck with finding better parties, Kaiva!
You're not a bad player - that you have the will to improve is a clear sign of that.
You might not be perfect at job X yet, but no one was when they were starting out with a new job. Remind your parties of that and let them know that you're looking to improve your skill as job X and that proper, polite advice is welcome!
...but make sure that you only take proper, polite advice to heart - not insults, wrongfully placed blame and abuse.

[Paladinleeds]

The third: You should first work on your self-confidence. You're very, very good at spotting mistakes you're making, but not so great at actually seeing that others are at fault too, maybe even a lot more than you.
I used to be extremly insecure aswell, but I was lucky enough to have some amazing friends who always informed me immdiatly when it wasnt me who messed up the whole thing.

I'm going to echo this sentiment. I have a friend whom if ever anything goes wrong she tries to blame herself because some nasty people have pulled similar stunts on her blaming her. Nowadays she queues with me and just listens to what I have to say, because if she is at fault, I will tell her, but if she isn't, I will make sure she knows and understands that too. So if someone is giving good constructive advice, I'll tell her to listen, and she will. I'm kinda like a security blanket for her. She knows if anyone starts trying to blame her for stuff or get nasty, I'll back her up. Actually kicked someone from a duty over it because they were being nasty and literally causing her to become paralysed with fear. As soon as he got kicked, she loosened up. Turns out he was on our realm too, so straight onto both our blacklists he went after duty.

[van_arn]

I'm not going to say you did nothing wrong, since I wasn't there, but your first order of business is to no longer keep to yourself. Make friends with a competent player that handles the same job you do, and see what they say. If your FC is dead or doesn't communicate with or run content with you, leave them no matter how attached you feel and find a better one. The fact that you're writing this on the forums tells me your FC has already failed you, assuming you have one. If you don't, then find one immediately. No excuses.

I will say, however, don't ever argue with a group. If things get heated with one other person, then kick them before you get angry. Never threaten a kick; simply do it. If you're threatened, leave before you give them the satisfaction of a kick. If several people aren't happy with what you're doing, ditch them before the stupidity starts.

There is no mark of honor in "sticking through" with a terrible party, nor is there any pride to be had in making yourself miserable with any group for any reason. You're on the right track with wanting to improve, but there's a strict limit on what you're going to able to do exclusively on your own.

Lastly, don't ever assume you know why you got kicked. There may be other factors, very stupid factors, that end up making that kick go through that may have everything or nothing to do with you. Simply continue to learn to the best of your ability, and make a friend that can tell you when you're on the wrong path.

And push buttons.