Level Syncing isn't the best solution

[Rhomagus]

Not really. What I replied to was you saying that if you're 70 and you don't like losing your abilities don't queue into leveling roulette.

And you know what? Know that all my classes are 70, I haven't touched a leveling roulette or a 50/60 roulette. I primarily tank and heal. So that's one less queue for that content because I don't want to have to do old, boring content that I have done hundreds of times with gimped abilities. Without the experience bonus, there's no reason to do it at all. Clusters are easier gotten by A rank hunts.

It's the same reason people responded poorly to SE's decision to lock the cutscenes on the Story mode roulette. People don't want their time wasted and they do a cost benefit analysis for their time.

IMHO, very few can honestly claim that if you find lvl 70 content enjoyable that you find level 15 content enjoyable when your skills are removed. You don't enjoy it, you merely tolerate it. And like I said earlier, you probably won't find very many lvl 70's in leveling roulette or 50/60 roulette. Below level 70 simply do it for the exp bonus.

This is a great post because the cons in this thread have effectively made this proposal as a solution, which is a gameplay behavior that you and a large part of the veteran populace are already displaying. And for good reason.

The system, in its current state, is already discouraging people like you, me, and the OP from doing the leveling roulette and this post is proof of that.

The fact they don't see that as a problem and that the ramifications of such actually hurts new players going through the content rather than help those going through the game for the first time is further proof of their disingenuous intent.

You are a problem because you keep insulting people, perhaps the reason no one wants to play together with you is due to your personality, not because they lose skills upon being synched down.

In any case, I'm done talking to you. Even the lightest of criticism towards you is met with comparisons to flat-earthers or calling people elitists. I'll be adding you to my ignore list and I expect others have already done so too.

Where did I mention that I'm concerned with "being a problem". Where did I mention that "I want people to play with me". I remember giving reasoning as to why I want people to play together, not necessarily with me. You're arguing from a perspective of emotion not from logic. This post is clear proof of that and it's clouding your judgement. People aren't playing with other people because they lose skills upon being synced down. That's the entire premise of the thread to begin with. Do me and yourself a favor, read the entire thread. Read every post. Absorb it's message. Then come back and offer constructive feedback, because so far, from you, it's been nothing but emotional appeals.

See my previous post for further info.

[HyoMinPark]

WARNING: Long post because I ran out of posts and was unable to respond to the things that I wanted to respond to thanks to that. I didn’t answer everything I wanted to to avoid making this longer than it already is. Points do not necessarily address the opening post, and are more so counterarguments to other things that have been said, so I apologize to those who find this information irrelevant.



Ignoring the vague ad hominem on people that disagree with you simply because they disagree with you...

If you show them how it is indeed possible, they just counter with "that's stupid". If you show them how it's not stupid and it's actually a fairly common sense implementation they now suddenly become software engineers and veteran programmers that have direct access to SE's source code and they'll tell you, "with how the system is built, it's impossible."

But your specific suggestion to make skills that were above the level of the instance you’re currently running do “nearly 0 damage” or “start missing” literally is a pointless and stupid system. Why use the skills if they’re doing 0 damage or missing? They are pointless buttons then. Same with if at-level skills are not “synced” but above-level ones are damage-wise. Or your entire rotation is penalized to balance against the lowest denominator (that is how balancing is done in this game).

Why used synced skills suffering a damage nerf/penalty due to sync when you can just use your at-level rotation and do appropriate damage for that level? Why should a level 70 DPS do a level 70 rotation in Sastasha or Brayflox when their baby co-DPS does just as much with a level 15 or level 30 rotation? Again, inb4 “for practice”, there is at-level content for that. I don’t consider it very strong evidence for a system like this.

This isn’t something a bunch of people are advocating for, nor something that is necessary to the game, and the time and resources would be better spent on something else—be it implementing a not-trash Relic grind in 5.0, fixing the mess PvP is, fixing the jobs that need help (i.e., MCH, DRK—that one is overdue for some TLC even though it’s better now than it was at 4.0 launch), fixing the mess that this game’s Housing system is (by far a popular request, probably the most popular), or even making 5.0 not a HW copy-paste with regards to content.

There is far more outrage and hubbub about all of the above compared to “I don’t have my level 70 rotation when I get Sastasha in the leveling roulette that I willingly queued for, and knew I could possibly end up here in this very situation “. Just because you disagree with that doesn’t mean it’s an invalid point.

Not interested in being taken seriously by those who've already shown me their painted faces, oversized shoes, polka dot pants, and seltzer water.

Communicative Skills 101 — if you want people to hear your proposal, it’s probably best not to insult them just because they disagree with you or offer counterpoints. It’s also worth it to not seem like an angry child when presenting an idea, too.

So in the first instance, having a high level rotation is useless because things die too quickly. In the second instance, things wouldn't be dying fast enough so therefore you should be kicked even over an ice mage who is actually less productive.

Momomi’s comment about kicking a level 70 player doing their full rotation was literally in response to your suggestion that synced skills miss or do 0 damage—in something like Sastasha or Halatali or Brayflox, that’s a significant portion of your kit just doing zero damage so that....what? You can “practice it”? The point she is making is that the level 70 player wouldn’t be contributing (you can’t contribute when your damage is 0 or your skills are all missing the targets), therefore she would replace you with someone who will (by actually using the skills that do damage, if we’re looking at your absurd suggestion). Don’t remove context; it makes you look disingenuous.

Not all opinions stay equal once new and accurate information is introduced. See flat earth theory.

Okay, and you haven’t provided any accurate information or quantifiable data to make your opinion “matter more” that anyone else’s in this thread; all you’re providing is personal feelings, assumptions, and anecdotes at best.

Elitists calling lower leveled people elitists is a privilege only available to elitists. Calling that out should be a given. This community is full of that.

No, it’s not. Players that aren’t high-level can show their own brand of elitism, just like non-raiders can be elitist. You are a prime example of the former. Or did you forget that you basically insinuated above that your opinions hold more weight than anyone else’s despite offering no facts to even give it credence?

rhetorical terrorists

Literally no reason to make comments like this just because people aren’t bowing at your feet saying your idea is amazing and as revolutionary as sliced bread.

I have also said that when I get to that level I would like to display said high level rotation to those who are low level and gave a first hand example of when both rookie and veteran player were better served as having such but the con side is not interested in reading the whole thread.

Okay, and others have said they aren’t interested in a system like this. Again, this isn’t a fact; it’s how you personally feel.

The con side is only interested in quote mining and straw manning.

The irony of you talking about others using fallacies when your posts are riddled with ad hominem and strawmans of their own.

Duty Roulette is not just a system to randomly put you in a dungeon. It's a queue system that incentivizes you to do runs you've already done in order to help players, veteran and rookie alike, match a party for the content.

And your incentives are hefty amounts of EXP if leveling, tomestones, and cracked clusters if you’re a tank/healer and labeled as the “adventurer in need”. Your incentives do not include “the ability to practice your level 70 rotation in Copperbell Mines”.

Veteran looking to finally obtain that glamour from that one dungeon you already completed years ago? Good news, you have a populace that can fill the slots you need in order to complete that dungeon due to the incentive structures present in the Duty Roulette.

Or they can literally unsync it if it’s a dungeon from a previous expansion, which is what veterans would do. That way they get it done faster, and they’re guaranteed loot if doing it solo or with a friend.

I am not obligated to show you or anyone else here respect that they have not offered anyone else.

But your blatant disrespect towards anyone who has disagreed with you also has a negative impact on people just reading the thread. I’ve only responded to you once, and before I even did that I had lost any respect for your arguments or your position due to your tone. That probably wouldn’t have happened if you had maintained a semblance of respect, despite criticism.

People aren't playing with other people because they lose skills upon being synced down. That's the entire premise of the thread to begin with.

There’s no evidence you can provide of this aside from anecdotes. The premise of the thread is the OP wanting to practice his level 70 rotation regardless of what duty he gets in a roulette—level 15, level 30, level 50, level 60, whatever. It’s not because “people aren’t queuing up for Leveling Roulette because this isn’t a thing, so it should be made a thing so that people will queue”. That’s your argument; not the original premise as presented by the opening post.

This is a great post because the cons in this thread have effectively made this proposal as a solution, which is a gameplay behavior that you and a large part of the veteran populace are already displaying. And for good reason.

The system, in its current state, is already discouraging people like you, me, and the OP from doing the leveling roulette and this post is proof of that.

The fact they don't see that as a problem and that the ramifications of such actually hurts new players going through the content rather than help those going through the game for the first time is further proof of their disingenuous intent.

No, people aren’t running Leveling Roulette as a level 70 job because they simply don’t want to—if they aren’t leveling or don’t need tomestones or don’t want cracked clusters, they skip it and do other things. It’s not because they lose skills when they’re synced down, and you’re being disingenuous by insinuating that, because the OP wants his skills regardless of sync or because you want your skills regardless of sync, that everyone feels this way.

[Penthea]

No, people aren’t running Leveling Roulette as a level 70 job because they simply don’t want to—if they aren’t leveling or don’t need tomestones or don’t want cracked clusters, they skip it and do other things. It’s not because they lose skills when they’re synced down, and you’re being disingenuous by insinuating that, because the OP wants his skills regardless of sync or because you want your skills regardless of sync, that everyone feels this way.

Can confirm that this is at least the case for myself and my fc. No one in my fc complains much about being in low lvl content as long as it's not Sastasha or Totorak. I don't hate the low lvl content, I simply have no need to run them on my main. However I still do them on my alts and I enjoy them as they are.

[OurMom]

No, people aren’t running Leveling Roulette as a level 70 job because they simply don’t want to—if they aren’t leveling or don’t need tomestones or don’t want cracked clusters, they skip it and do other things. It’s not because they lose skills when they’re synced down

I do not run anything under level cap because I don't want to be sync'd down. I also run very little ilvl sync content as well, I just don't understand why I'm progressing if the game is going to take it away with like 90% of the content. It just makes zero sense to me.

[Reynhart]

It just makes zero sense to me.

An option to play with a friend who haven't reached your level yet but not ruining the whole experience fo him by rolling over the content, maybe ?

[OurMom]

An option to play with a friend who haven't reached your level yet but not ruining the whole experience fo him by rolling over the content, maybe ?

Who says that's what everyone or even most people want?
Who says that my friend doesn't mind being carried?
Why force dungeons/lore (that some people dont care about) on people and then take their levels away?

So while what you're saying is an "option maybe" it shouldn't be because it should not have been designed like that in the first place.

I don't know of any other mmo that does this and yet they're all managing some how....

[Penthea]

Why force dungeons/lore (that some people dont care about) on people and then take their levels away?

It's so that players who are lvling won't have 3 hour+ queues.

And if getting synced down bothers you so much you could just not queue in roulettes that can do that. Crazy idea I know. Obviously I'm some nugget of genius given so many here haven't considered this.

[Reynhart]

Who says that's what everyone or even most people want?

Don't do the roulette if you personnaly don't want to.

Who says that my friend doesn't mind being carried?

Run in unsync mode as a duo.

Why force dungeons/lore (that some people dont care about) on people and then take their levels away?

You don't have to do dungeons more than once if you don't like it. The first time you do it, changes are you're of the proper level, and if not, run unsync.

Amazing how people conveniently forget every option they have to complain about the option they don't like as being the only one...

[OurMom]

Amazing how people conveniently forget every option they have to complain about the option they don't like as being the only one...

And if getting synced down bothers you so much you could just not queue in roulettes that can do that. Crazy idea I know. Obviously I'm some nugget of genius given so many here haven't considered this.

I do not run anything under level cap because I don't want to be sync'd down. I also run very little ilvl sync content as well, I just don't understand why I'm progressing if the game is going to take it away with like 90% of the content. It just makes zero sense to me.

It's like that almost wasn't you being sarcastic but your actual level of intelligence there.


I love when people reply to my comment of me saying what I don't do....to tell me....I don't have to do it.... truly amazing.

FFXI had it in an expansion no less where it had many zones instanced or not that would sync you down to a lower level and stopping you from from using higher skills and magic. It also made you have to carry gear that you could use at 30, 40, 50 and 60. It's no longer like that and I'm not sure how they deal with level sync these days.

That sounds just awful, an entire area? No thanks. I've played almost every mmo out there and it seems like they all get by without level syncing. It's like players there actually talk to each other and ask for help or the content is worth going back to or people just don't get if someone blows through it.

Not sure what it is, but level syncing is just awful to me.

[SannaR]

Who says that's what everyone or even most people want?
Who says that my friend doesn't mind being carried?
Why force dungeons/lore (that some people dont care about) on people and then take their levels away?

So while what you're saying is an "option maybe" it shouldn't be because it should not have been designed like that in the first place.

I don't know of any other mmo that does this and yet they're all managing some how....

FFXI had it in an expansion no less where it had many zones instanced or not that would sync you down to a lower level and stopping you from from using higher skills and magic. It also made you have to carry gear that you could use at 30, 40, 50 and 60. It's no longer like that and I'm not sure how they deal with level sync these days.