Level Syncing isn't the best solution

[Rhomagus]

The biggests problem isn't even damage output, it's the difference in skills beyond the dmg they do. How do you nerf a spell that heals up to full hp always? How do you balance between a player that can restore other's mp and one that can't?

This has already been addressed.

The problem with this thread is that those who oppose the implementation of an "ability sync" system borrow the same rhetorical strategies as flat-earthers.

Not only have we already been here before with Red Mage and it's implementation into XIV's current system, but even if all the questions of How? Who? What? Where? When? Why? were directly answered they'll just keep saying, "It's impossible".

If you show them how it is indeed possible, they just counter with "that's stupid".

If you show them how it's not stupid and it's actually a fairly common sense implementation they now suddenly become software engineers and veteran programmers that have direct access to SE's source code and they'll tell you, "with how the system is built, it's impossible."

If you counter with that's what we're asking, is to change the system, they now suddenly have become SE accountants and they'll counter with, "development resources would be better spent on [such and such]."

When you show them that SE themselves doesn't even honor that as an excuse within their own company when it comes to implementing systems but that each team that works on a particular aspect of the game doesn't actually effect the output of the other teams that work on other aspects of the game, they counter with, "you're just an elitist that wants to show off."

When you show them that you're not even in current endgame content, that you're actually wanting these changes to help incentivize new players, and that it's them that have this elitist attitude, they'll just counter with, "you're not even a true fan of this game. If you hate the game so much go play WoW."

When you show them how much you love the game, and how you've been a fan since you've heard the announcement of the game at E3 back in 09, they'll just counter with, "you liked the abomination that was 1.0? Dear god your taste is horrible, thank god we aren't listening to you."

When you tell them that there were aspects of 1.0 that you didn't like but that you still loved that SE did what was necessary to fix the game to fit the players expectations they just counter with, "if we implemented everything the players wanted we'd have butt sliders, ability sync, blue mages, more tanks, boss fights not in a circle, raids that aren't just boss fights but entire dungeons, mutually confirmed dueling in non PvP areas, the ability to change the order in which your linkshells are displayed, and a phone app that allows you to actually talk with your FC." they'll just counter with "no one has that."

When you show them examples of other games that have indeed "done that" they counter with, "its not worth development resources."

When you show them how it's actually easier than what they are decrying and that there is an entire mod community that is getting the things done on their own free time without pay and that it really isn't a viable excuse, they'll just keep doing what they do best. Putting their heads up their... *ahem* excuse me in the sand.

[Zephera]

The problem with this thread is that those who oppose the implementation of an "ability sync" system borrow the same rhetorical strategies as flat-earthers.

I don't think comments like this will help people take you more seriously.

[Rhomagus]

I don't think comments like this will help people take you more seriously.

Not interested in being taken seriously by those who've already shown me their painted faces, oversized shoes, polka dot pants, and seltzer water.

This doesn't help you either.

I'll respond, I'm not going to create a new post and exhaust my daily quota though. Not interested in being helped by people who aren't willing to help in the first place.

Have you forgotten how quickly things die in low lvl content? You wouldn't be able to do anything resembling a full lvl 70 rotation on anything other than a boss. You would get far better practise on dummies in a garden.

If this was to be implemented as you describe it, I would honestly kick someone for wasting my time the moment I see them doing a high level rotation. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be alone in that. I'm a pretty patient person, I've even put up with Ice Mages without kicking them. But a high level player doing this, who's just doing it to show off? Get out of my party.

So in the first instance, having a high level rotation is useless because things die too quickly. In the second instance, things wouldn't be dying fast enough so therefore you should be kicked even over an ice mage who is actually less productive. Said by a person who is higher level than me by the way. Yet, I'm the elitist show off. Totally got me there. Can't compete with that wit.

Great community by the way.

Well this thread sure has nothing to do with helping low levels and is more about high levels showing off..

Yep. Says the level 70 AST to the Level 60 MNK, who is now leveling an alt on another server to get a feel for what the game was like from the beginning. You're totally not disingenuous at all.

People are allowed to have opinions and disagree. Even people like you.

We agree, therefore here I am, and here you are. Though where we may differ is I believe all opinions are created equal. Not all opinions stay equal once new and accurate information is introduced. See flat earth theory.

EDIT: By the way, the community isn't here to coddle you. You can't use the sarcastic "Great community by the way" meme when you're the one who decided to insult people. Of course you're going to get backlash when you try to treat people disagreeing with you like garbage.

Not looking for help. Not looking to be coddled. This has already been covered. I can use the "Great community by the way" meme, specifically because of that very reason. Don't want to be called out for being a snake in the tall grass then don't be a snake in tall grass. Elitists calling lower leveled people elitists is a privilege only available to elitists. Calling that out should be a given. This community is full of that.

So... you want this change added so you can practice the rotation you don't even have. Am I getting this right? Surely I've crossed a wire somewhere?

Another quote mine, sure I'll play. Have been saying since the beginning that I would like the ability to witness a high level's rotation as a low level, in a low level dungeon. Even went so far as to nerf my original interpretation in order to meet halfway, but there's no need in arguing with rhetorical terrorists. That was my folly, not highlighting the hypocrisy of the con side of the argument. I have also said that when I get to that level I would like to display said high level rotation to those who are low level and gave a first hand example of when both rookie and veteran player were better served as having such but the con side is not interested in reading the whole thread. The con side is only interested in quote mining and straw manning. I have read the entire thread from the first to post until now and have been severely underwhelmed with the reasoning of the cons.

The "ability sync" system eliminates the discouragement that the OP highlighted when he describes going back to a low level rotation and how much time is spent in this game practicing low level rotations despite have a full kit available but arbitrarily locked. "Look to those who walked before, to lead those who walk after." in a nutshell. And if you're curious, yes this will be later used to contrast the hypocrisy of the con "ability sync" side and their horrible methodology in argumentation, as you seem to want to label me simultaneously an elitist and a noob.

The second quote is also the answer to your trying to pit Penthea and Momomi's comments against one another. If your proposal - as you've stated multiple times - is that it's okay for the higher level abilities to be synced so far down that they don't even do damage, then yes. Yes you would be kicked faster than an Ice Mage because at least an Ice Mage does damage.

Yes, and this is why the cons are hypocrites.

Propose a fix to a problem, they say it's overpowered.
Propose a fix to that criticism, you're such a elitist worth kicking even though your rotation would in actuality still be more effective that an ice mage as a full rotation still includes the first part of the more productive rotation while an Ice Mages rotation is inefficient full stop.

You either aren't reading, are ignorant, or disingenuous. I'm leading toward "disingenuous", as it's clear you've read the thread and my responses and are aware enough of the games systems in order to provide your own solutions.

This is also a fault of the cons, as they would rather nerf the populace participating in Duty Roulette by offering the non solution of "don't do Duty Roulettes" which would potentially lead to the death of the game, rather than further incentivize veteran players to participate in the Duty Roulette. Duty Roulette is not just a system to randomly put you in a dungeon. It's a queue system that incentivizes you to do runs you've already done in order to help players, veteran and rookie alike, match a party for the content.

They could just let you have your duty squadron. FFXI, (which is a part of the same business division as FFXIV and whos operations are overseen by the same man) has the AI controlled trust system. You could just take your squadron into Duty Roulettes, but this negates the purpose for it in the first place. "Don't do Duty Roulettes" is a non solution.

Veteran looking to finally obtain that glamour from that one dungeon you already completed years ago? Good news, you have a populace that can fill the slots you need in order to complete that dungeon due to the incentive structures present in the Duty Roulette.
Rookie looking to complete the dungeon for the first time? Good news, you have a healthy enough population due to the incentive structure that you can complete that dungeon in a reasonable timeframe.


They aren't mutually exclusive, but by discouraging veterans to use the Duty Roulette, you not only hurt rookies, but the very foundations of playing an MMO in the first place. To play with others.

Pro ability sync maintains the incentive structure to participate in daily Duty Roulettes whilst eliminating the discouraging aspects of doing so.
Pro ability sync maintains the discovery aspect of unlocking new abilities for rookie players. Giving players the full kit from the beginning eliminates this crucial aspect to character development.
Pro ability sync intersects the wants and needs of veterans and rookies by positively incentivizing veteran players to help rookie players.

So even though I'm pro ability sync, coming from a low level perspective, I will be called an elitist, or in your case, suggested I'm a hypocrite for wanting access to abilities I don't have, which is never an argument I've been in favor of ever since I joined the thread. Nice try though. Easily rebutted.

Not too sure how to respond to this, you can use the meme because you insulted people? That's a really odd way of looking at it. Seems to me that you're the problem the community could do without.

Not sure how to respond eh? Sometimes the best response is not responding at all. I'm wanting to incentivize people to play together and I want to remove as many roadblocks from that as possible. Yep, I'm the problem to the community.

No, the problem with this thread is you're expecting an echo chamber on a public forum and curse all the saps who disagree with you with petty and low-tier insults. If you don't like constructive criticism about your ideas, then stay off a public venue.

Go to tumblr or reddit for that nonsense.

This has already been covered, I'm not expecting an echo chamber. You don't even have to read to an earlier post of mine. The part where I address this is right in this post. If you can't even read this post completely I don't have to dignify you with a separate post. Again, it'd be a waste of my allotted post count.

I'm just highlighting faulty reasoning. It's actually the very reason why I'm still here. If this were an echo chamber I'd have no reason to stay. The feedback given has not been constructive criticism, far from it. I am not obligated to show you or anyone else here respect that they have not offered anyone else. Again, don't want to be called out for being a snake in the tall grass, don't be a snake in the tall grass. I'll add: I don't actually mind if you think I'm a snake in the tall grass. Therefore I don't mind being called a snake in the tall grass by you and your ilk. I will gladly match tone for tone, with complete disregard for your personal opinions of me. I won't be wasting a post to respond to this waste of a post, which is hilarious coming from someone espousing constructive criticism.

You are a problem because you keep insulting people, perhaps the reason no one wants to play together with you is due to your personality, not because they lose skills upon being synched down.

In any case, I'm done talking to you. Even the lightest of criticism towards you is met with comparisons to flat-earthers or calling people elitists. I'll be adding you to my ignore list and I expect others have already done so too.

Where did I mention that I'm concerned with "being a problem". Where did I mention that "I want people to play with me". I remember giving reasoning as to why I want people to play together, not necessarily with me. You're arguing from a perspective of emotion not from logic. This post is clear proof of that and it's clouding your judgement. People aren't playing with other people because they lose skills upon being synced down. That's the entire premise of the thread to begin with. Do me and yourself a favor, read the entire thread. Read every post. Absorb it's message. Then come back and offer constructive feedback, because so far, from you, it's been nothing but emotional appeals.

I support your blocking of me. Says more about you than me. Meanwhile, while you make posts in this thread, I can make criticisms of said posts and everyone else who hasn't blocked me can read them and make a more informed opinion, while you and those who decide to block me, can literally block everyone to the point where you create a giant hugbox echo chamber where you only see opinions that you agree with. Even better? You won't offer non solutions to my criticisms because you can't level an argument against an argument you haven't read. It's a win win for me and those who want to actually contribute feedback.

Your self censorship hurts you more than it does me. Please proceed.

[Zephera]

Not interested in being taken seriously by those who've already shown me their painted faces, oversized shoes, polka dot pants, and seltzer water.

This doesn't help you either.

EDIT: By the way, the community isn't here to coddle you. You can't use the sarcastic "Great community by the way" meme when you're the one who decided to insult people. Of course you're going to get backlash when you try to treat people disagreeing with you like garbage.

[Zephera]

Not looking for help. Not looking to be coddled. This has already been covered. I can use the "Great community by the way" meme, specifically because of that very reason. Don't want to be called out for being a snake in the tall grass then don't be a snake in tall grass. Elitists calling lower leveled people elitists is a privilege only available to elitists. Calling that out should be a given. This community is full of that.

Not too sure how to respond to this, you can use the meme because you insulted people? That's a really odd way of looking at it. Seems to me that you're the problem the community could do without.

[Darrcyphfeid]

Said by a person who is higher level than me by the way.

Yep. Says the level 70 AST to the Level 60 MNK, who is now leveling an alt on another server to get a feel for what the game was like from the beginning.

No, exact opposite. It's "I want to have access to the abilities I've learned.", "I'd like to showcase this rotation (even if it's not effective at said level) to give the rookie player something to look forwar to.", "I want to practice my endgame rotation and commit it to muscle memory."

So... you want this change added so you can practice the rotation you don't even have. Am I getting this right? Surely I've crossed a wire somewhere?

The second quote is also the answer to your trying to pit Penthea and Momomi's comments against one another. If your proposal - as you've stated multiple times - is that it's okay for the higher level abilities to be synced so far down that they don't even do damage, then yes. Yes you would be kicked faster than an Ice Mage because at least an Ice Mage does damage.

snip

This is actually a big part of why I hate Eureka. The Relics were my reason for doing roulettes/dungeons in ARR/HW. I've been omni 70 since... I don't know, October? I ain't got no real reason to do these things. I sure as hell ain't sitting in MSQ Roulette.

The part where low level feels terribly just seals it.

[NanaWiloh]

So... you want this change added so you can practice the rotation you don't even have. Am I getting this right? Surely I've crossed a wire somewhere?

The second quote is also the answer to your trying to pit Penthea and Momomi's comments against one another. If your proposal - as you've stated multiple times - is that it's okay for the higher level abilities to be synced so far down that they don't even do damage, then yes. Yes you would be kicked faster than an Ice Mage because at least an Ice Mage does damage.




This is actually a big part of why I hate Eureka. The Relics were my reason for doing roulettes/dungeons in ARR/HW. I've been omni 70 since... I don't know, October? I ain't got no real reason to do these things. I sure as hell ain't sitting in MSQ Roulette.

The part where low level feels terribly just seals it.

No, your reading right it he wants to use low level dungeons like a practice ground for rotations. Wonder if he knows that hitting abilites that do nothing extends how along it takes to kill a mob. Also somehow showing off High level abilities too low levels who could be 50+ levels away from getting said abilities is inspiration??

[Rhomagus]

No, your reading right it he wants to use low level dungeons like a practice ground for rotations.

Yes. That is not as ridiculous as you are making it sound, and the suggestion only further incentivizes the use of the Duty Roulette. Feel free to completely ignore how veterans are already ignoring the roulette and how that's a problem.

Wonder if he knows that hitting abilites that do nothing extends how along it takes to kill a mob.

Again, this is a further nullification of the first proposal of just a normal ability sync, which would leave a veteran slightly more powerful than a person going through the content for the first time. (which is moot because the system as is is already set up that way.) Even if you wanted to nullify the effects of anything above level sync, it doesn't change the fact that faceroll content is faceroll content, and a completely nerfed "ability sync" system would still be more effective than what we have now in regards not only to the dreaded ice mage example but more importantly to enticing veterans to continue to use the Duty Roulette.

Also somehow showing off High level abilities too low levels who could be 50+ levels away from getting said abilities is inspiration??

Yes. How do you not get this? The problem is that you do actually get it. You just don't want to admit it.

Does SE marketing only push to show the dull aspects of low level grinding in order to entice new players? This post is woosh to the max. Thank you for more filler post content on this thread. Your contributions are greatly appreciated.

You know what really entices players? Instead of the Dalamud trailer where Bahamut completely wrecked the whole of Eorzea. They should've just shown irl footage of a Carbuncle plushy casting Gust on a Chocobo. But, not actually show any effects, that wouldn't be worth development resources. Just show someone, hand and all, holding a Carbuncle plushy and having him do a backflip. That'd be wicked cool. /s


Even better? They could show a Marauder outside Limsa Lominsa auto attacking rats for 20 minutes. If people don't want to play the game after that, then good riddance. Who wants people like that infesting the populace...

said no one ever.

Yes, seeing high level players is inspiration. I know this. SE knows this. We know this. You know it too, but in the efforts to dissuade people from implementing a system that helps everyone you have to downplay common sense and make it seem like it's detestable. I understand, given the framework the cons argument is rested upon.

[Penthea]

Yes. That is not as ridiculous as you are making it sound

Lol sorry but it totally is.