Level Syncing isn't the best solution

[kikix12]

The system I proposed wouldn't break anything that's not already broken by the current system. As for power creep- a little testing goes a LOOONG way. That's why games like this have testers. So properly utilized, the testers would ensure that this doesn't happen. It's what testers are for and a company this big knows this.

If a fork have five teeth when it's in new, it's perfect.
If two teeth of a fork break, it's broken...but still usable.
If two more break...it's impossible to use for some foods, but still have its use.
Break the last tooth and you end up with useless crap that can't even work as a lever because forks are made from too soft of a material.

See that?! There are multiple stages of "breaking" stuff. Current system is not "perfect" mechanically, because it doesn't let you get that feel that there was a point to you growing stronger. And if you unsync it you cannot get any drops (experience is not relevant here) except from bosses. However, it's still usable and works while minimizing the negatives.

Your system would completely break it. The difference between high level and low level players would be massive. And that's unavoidable. Even if you balance the damage output of high levels to compare to low levels...what point do you compare?! I mean, at lvl18 playing a bard is laughably easy. At lvl70 playing a bard is a very demanding task. That means that a lvl18 player (Sastasha lvl cap) will use their available skills to the utmost, meaning that even if they are average players they will bring damage near the classes maximum output. But a player that's lvl70 synced to 18 in your way?! Not really. Most will be below or around the middle of the potential. That means that at lvl70, you are WORSE than at lvl18.

Go down with the balance to the other end of the spectrum, and nearly every lvl70 WILL be better. And that invalidates the whole process of balancing.

Go down the middle and...some players will be far weaker and some far stronger. Not to mention, the other players will be unable to get a good role model. They will find themselves copying poor gameplay or thinking that a good player is bad because relatively he's at 80% not 95%, unlike the lvl18. So the lvl18 when getting to level 70 will avoid that rotation...and is more likely to end up way lower than at 80%, rather than higher.


What I agree with is that early levels are a pain because most classes lack core FUNCTIONS to themselves. Like AoE, being the biggest culprit. Even if one, every class should have access to AoE from the very first dungeon. Every class should have access to one ranged attack from very first dungeon. And every class should have access to their core mechanics at lvl15. Stormblood made low level content significantly more of a pain because they actually took away from early levels to have what to give at the new ones. That's a design flaw that they absolutely SHOULD fix. And only that.

[Sigma-Astra]

Well, in WoW, it's just a very minor part of the game- here it's a HUGE part of the game. Also, I don't think a company that counts as a multi-billion dollar corporation should ever use "It's hard" as an excuse for not making an improvement

You keep using this "multi-billion dollar corporation" as an excuse for why your idea should work when that's not how companies work at all. A company could be the richest in the world, that doesn't mean that they have the extra finances to go with every idea that the playerbase comes up with because they're the one in a million person that happens to not like something again for the 100th time.

The money that SE makes from XIV very seldom goes back into XIV, it goes into their other projects. You're acting like XIV is the only thing they're working on at this time.

also, the more practice I get at my max level rotation, the better I'll be at it.

We have things called EX trials, Savage, and Stone, Sea, & Sky for that...as well as expert dungeons and the newest 24 man raid. If you want to practice your lvl 70 rotation in Sastasha, you'll barely get off one or two Fire IV's before the poor mobs are dead. That's not teaching you anything. Honestly, the idea of one-shotting those poor bats is incredibly cynical.

This is like the Zubat cave all over again.

[Darrcyphfeid]

As for the "Real Stuff", LOL. This mentality that "Real Stuff" is only current end-game content is the Achilles Heel of "Players" that think likr you.

You jumped right to the end and missed the entire point.

The "real stuff" isn't the endgame, because this game barely has an endgame. The "real stuff" is having a toolkit/rotation - the basic gameplay loop for XIV and the subject of this thread - that doesn't put you to sleep or otherwise feel like garbage. Unless you think jobs feel fine synced down in the ARR leveling dungeons, but then you should argue that instead of what you currently are.

If you don't enjoy the game, offer valid solutions.

I did. Look at the first page.

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It IS the best FINAL FANTASY MMO with its approach to storytelling, that is undisputable.

No, sorry, it's not. The contents of the story being better or worse between the two is subjective, but one of these games forces players to slog through something like 150 hours of fetch quests and cutscenes to access basic game features/modes.

The other drops you into the world and lets you do whatever you want, when you want to do it. You gained access to all jobs (quests) once you hit lv30, and going to expansion areas was simply a matter of 1) figuring out where they were and 2) getting there without having your face ripped off. Very few content types were locked behind the story missions, and the ones that were didn't require the full completion of its story to unlock.

Oh, and the stories still managed to reference one another and feel connected.

And of course "Story first" it is NOT this game's Achilles heel, as evidenced by the reception of it and the marginally bigger total player count than any other FINAL FANTASY MMO at the same point of its lifecycle.

Take a look at how many threads crop up (on Reddit, to be fair, but still) about people quitting the game around Titan's arc (30~34), towards the end of ARR or during the 2.1~2.55 stretch. Consider how many basic and obvious design choices, like Frontlines Freelancers, weren't implemented in a timely manner (or at all) because "lore reasons."

Overall player count is irrelevant; XI came out in an entirely different era. When they start giving away story and level skip potions with purchases of the game because they see a decline in player adoption and retention, will it still be story first?

[Kuroka]

I do see why they wont give us stuff like tripplecast or flare in lv 30-ish stuff, but still, at least let us keep basic rotations and maybe abilitys 2-5 lvl above the sync, so its not only 1-2-1-2 all the time...

[Eloah]

No one can complain about the crap that was the SB release, and the wonderful job adjustments it brought, unless you played SCH before it was fixed. Your fairie is too strong, lets nerf her, your DPS is too powerful lets nerf it, your shields are too strong lets make the other shields in the game stronger, a healer shouldn't have AoE that strong lets remove all of your spamable AoE choices and nerf the hell out of your main one. GRRRR!!!!!

Ironically level-syncing for SCH back then, and even now kinda, is a good thing.

(Not saying people can't complain, though technically I did, lol. It's just that compared to the other Jobs, SCH was hit the hardest)

[Kirsten_Rev]

I spend a lot of my time level synced in this game while doing various quests and roulettes. It feels like I scratched and clawed my way to level 70 only to be level 50 again.

I think there can be another solution- like simply lowering the output of our spells to be on par with what we're doing. I have a level 70 rotation and I should be able to use and practice my level 70 rotation. Even if it doesn't do all the damage that it does at level 70, I should still be able to use it when doing lower level content.

I know... people are going to rebel and claim that this cannot be done.

This is not a new concept- There are other MMOs who have pulled this off. It's not impossible. It can be done. This company has the money to pull this off. It's a multi-billion dollar company. People should be rewarded for making maximum level- not have it taken away from them- also, the more practice I get at my max level rotation, the better I'll be at it.

May I ask why you're doing sub-70 Roulette content? I think if you're feeling pushed into it, that might be the more relevant issue here than the level sync mechanism.

Also, I don't know that it should be coming up on quests. Most quest content - minus EX Primals and Raids - is solo'able at 70. Can you think of quest specifics where this came up?

Edit / Addition:

(Not saying people can't complain, though technically I did, lol. It's just that compared to the other Jobs, SCH was hit the hardest)

WHM was hit pretty hard too, with several of our highly beneficial and previously-native abilities (Protect, Cleric's Stance, Largesse (previously Divine Seal), Lucid Dreaming, Esuna) suddenly being stolen from us and thrown into the Role pool.

[AppleJinx]

Yeah I can't wait to run with 3 other max level buddies and blow through roulettes everyday and leaving newbies with even longer queues. I can also just kick people that haven't reached level cap and hoping for a max level rando to fill since difference in playstyle and all that jazz

[Kirsten_Rev]

Yeah I can't wait to run with 3 other max level buddies and blow through roulettes everyday and leaving newbies with even longer queues. I can also just kick people that haven't reached level cap and hoping for a max level rando to fill since difference in playstyle and all that jazz

Did you bother to read the OP? In particular, I call your attention here:

I think there can be another solution- like simply lowering the output of our spells to be on par with what we're doing. I have a level 70 rotation and I should be able to use and practice my level 70 rotation. Even if it doesn't do all the damage that it does at level 70, I should still be able to use it when doing lower level content.

This would never create a scenario in which people are kicked in hopes of a random level 70. In fact, it arguably would afford preferential treatment to sub-70 characters, since as others have mentioned, it's a lot easier to achieve optimal damage output at level 20 than it is to achieve optimal damage output at 70.

[Dualgunner]

No. You can't have that.
When you are doing a lvl 30 Dungeon, you are basically doing it time-approppriate.
When this dungeon was opened to the Warror of Light, it was when he was Lvl 30.

You cannot have that because the Wwarrior of Light didn't have these skills yet.
People must understand that this game is FINAL FANTASY and Story is first unlike any other MMO.

Plus, there IS a setting that can help you get what you want, Unssynced Reviosinst Trivial Mode, or URTM.

By this same logic, the WoL shouldn't be able to do any sub-50 dungeon as a non-ARR job. It's physically impossible for them to have unlocked DRK, AST, MCH, RDM, or SAM by lv15-17, which is the sync limits for Sastasha.

[Jojoya]

This is a video game. And there is a huge audience who want this. SE makes changes to this game all the time. Costly ones too. That's how MMOS operate. You must be new to them. MMOs grew, change, and evolve. It happens all the time.

Yes, we know this is a video game. Not sure why that needs to be mentioned. Like any other business product or service, there are significant costs involved that the consumer probably doesn't even think about like payroll, insurances, office space leasing, utilities, supplies and equipment, marketing, etc. Or did you think that games just magically appear in a cost free virtual space with those who make the game volunteering their services and use of their personal supplies/equipment without need for compensation?

Your idea of a huge audience might be a small minority of the total FFXIV player base. You have no way of knowing since you don't personally know every single player.

You honestly think those costly changes were made without some sort of cost/time/benefit analysis being done first? Are you that ignorant of how businesses operate?

I've played WoW since 2007. I also played RIFT for about 3 years and I've dabbled in SWTOR, LoTRO and DDO. Safe to say I'm not new to MMOs.

Growth, as in increasing the active player base or increasing the amount of content available? Most MMOs don't have much growth in the player base after their initial release and growth of content is inevitable because it makes zero sense to remove content that could be keeping players occupied.

Change happens all the time, yes. Companies are trying to figure out ways to keep their customers happy while increasing profits. Most customers aren't happy if they never get anything new, especially if they're being asked to maintain a subscription. Not every change ends up a good change, though.

People will argue over whether the way certain games "evolved" were good or bad for those games. Talk to anyone who was playing Star Wars Galaxies when it "evolved" to add the New Game Experience. Talk to the current WoW player base that is bitterly divided over the current state of the game to the point many are eagerly looking forward to the eventual release of the Classic WoW legacy servers.

You need to make a better case for how your proposed change to the way content is scaled will benefit the game and SE's revenues beyond "me and some others want". As you can already tell, there's considerable opposition from people who are already familiar with how your system has worked in other games or who just don't like the idea for whatever reason.

Did you bother to read the OP? In particular, I call your attention here:


This would never create a scenario in which people are kicked in hopes of a random level 70. In fact, it arguably would afford preferential treatment to sub-70 characters, since as others have mentioned, it's a lot easier to achieve optimal damage output at level 20 than it is to achieve optimal damage output at 70.

How do you effectively make someone with a full AoE toolkit deal damage on par with a player that hasn't leveled high enough to get any AoE abilties at all, especially considering the way things get chain pulled? Drop the potency on the AoEs from the typical 100 or so down to 10 so if it hits 10 mobs then it deals roughly the same damage as a low level player will deal using their standard single target attack?

Do you cap potency on all single target abilities at 150 or perhaps even down to 100 depending on what item level sync is being used? At what content level do you start increasing the potencies to bring them more in line with the demand of those higher but still not max level dungeons?

I'm sure SE would love to see the players behind this change presenting their theorycrafting analysis showing how this can work successfully on a job by job and dungeon by dungeon basis.