So.. i just got my first toxic party

[Bluvirus]

and this is why we have people not tanking. Sorry there are members in our community like this. Thankfully this is a relatively small minority but they are here sadly

[Omury]

I have an entire chat snapshot of a toxic tank.
He was not fun.
Then last night I had 2 tanks yelling at me for not raising people in O12 when I just swift razed the other healer. It's a seven second cast even at ilevel 373.

[RopeDrink]

Sorry but it isn't the tanks job to pull every mob in the dungeon at once just because the party is in a rush. If that were the case they would just include all the trash mobs at the very beginning of the dungeon and then you would go straight to the boss. They are staggered in groups through-out the the dungeon because in terms of gameplay this is the minimum the tank should be able to handle.

No, the minimum the tank can handle is the minimum the tank can handle. It is not defined by straight lines in the sand, especially in lower content where gearing/scale renders them into a state where even DPS and Healers can mass-pull and typically survive due to drastically lowered threat of the dungeon. Statements like that remind of the countless "Healers doing Damage" threads where people justify not doing any damage during downtime simply because 'it's not my job/role'. Such mentalities convey lack of flexibility and a desire to live by unspoken rules rather than adapt to given situations.

In short, the tank (and healer [keeping in mind the overall damage of the DPS players]) will eventually give a good idea to the whole team as to how much can be pulled at once, which may or may not involve using those 'breaks in the trash' as a guideline.

The problem here is that each individual has their own idea of what is 'optimal', which often isn't capable of computing the variations that present itself via pugging (such as whether the Healer is as reactive/geared/experienced/damage-ready as the last, with the same question at the tank and damage-dealers), thus people often enter dungeons with expectations based on a particular experience rather than keeping in mind the simple fact that not all groups are the same (outside of premades, where you would have a better overall idea).

You can get overgeared tanks who don't realize that their gear-state doesn't effect the Healer who is probably inexperienced, undergeared, nervous or [insert whatever here], which can then be worsened by the fact the damage-dealers might also not be 100% proficient, thus you can end up in a situation where healing is not as good as you expected, the damage isn't killing things as quickly as you'd like (which means more tanking & healing needed), and thus overpulling causes an unpleasant experience for all involved. It is up to everyone to learn these variations and adapt accordingly. Same goes for undergeared or inexperienced tanks who has a geared healing veteran and well greased DPS behind them - it is obviously desirable to be knowledgable and geared, but some holes in the trinity can be blurred by the other two. In short, find the limit and adapt to it. Said limit can come from any side of the triangle (or all of them). The question is who is/isn't adapting to it.

Having said all that; in a trinity-game - where efficiency is determined by all three roles, not just one - it takes a special kind of someone to take it upon themselves to dictate what is optimal for the entire team, by themselves, no matter what role (even tanks). Anyone who is half decent will be able to adapt to the flow if possible, or at least capable of communicating if they can't. Neither of which needs to include rudeness.

[Besame]

I don't run dungeons much anymore, toxic people are 1 reason. They act the same way in my hunt linkshells, swooping in and tagging the mob as soon as they arrive with no care for others still trying to get there and then attempt to justify their actions with verbal assaults. MMOs have always been the breeding ground for nasty people and comes with the territory when they can hide behind a screen.

[PretzJG]

While this is true it also is more on the fault of the game devs who decided to invent the Queuing system and start catering so heavily to the casual players who play only 1-4 hours total a WEEK. The original MMOs all had systems where you have to talk to other players to form groups, once a group was formed you had to get to the Dungeon yourselves or you got lucky enough to be summoned by the others in your party who were already there before you. Also this setup meant that the community had a set of honor rules that people played with, and of course if you kept breaking them then you found fewer and fewer groups to the Dungeons and Raids. Now you have the Queuing system, and all you do is click a button and the game puts you into a party with other people you have never spoken to before and who might play things differently than you do. And as for penalties the only thing you have to worry about is the Quitter penalty which is a short timer for the next time you can queue, it's nothing lasting. So if anyone wanted to go into a group and pull everything as a Healer or DPS all the way through to the boss and wipe the group, causing repair costs to increase, after getting kicked out all they have to do is wait about 15 to 30 minutes and they can keep repeating it. Whereas in the old systems you had people who would tell others about your misdeeds and if you got too notable for being a dick then people would flat refuse to even give you the chance to be in the party.

The old ways led to the community actually working as a community rather than just a collection of people who talk about what is going on and tell everyone they don't agree with to "#getgood" Now yes population control on the server meant a lot more back then, and the queuing system allows for cross server groups so it's more frequent runs in the dungeons and raids. So the toxicity is coming from the lack of rules and consequence, not just the hiding behind a screen.

[Yui_Tenshi]

When I tank, I say if the healer wants to tank because they want to get through faster, then just let them. You just keep doing what's comfortable to you. If they die, that's there fault for not working together on the content. Though, I will occasionally pull more mobs as Healer/DPS because I know I can still handle it without anyone dying. But if the tank asks to not pull so much mobs, I will respect that and stay with the group. So that healer was wrong for splitting the mobs after you told them to stop.

[Grafeit]

Like others have said..

It is kind of the community, sadly.

If a tank DOESNT pull like a maniac, people complain that he/she is too slow. If he/she DOES pull huge groups and “go go go” then the healers almost always complain about how the one thing they hate more than anything is a tank who doesn’t slow down or stop.

It’s SUPER rude and out of line for them to pull ahead of you. If I’m healing or DD’ing, and I don’t like how fast the tank is moving, I just deal with it, or I might say “Mond picking up the pace, if the Healer is ok with it?” But I’ll NEVER move to tanking on my own or causing mayhem like that.

Keep in mind, you can’t, and won’t, impress everyone you run with. Play at your comfort level, and don’t let their antics ruin your fun! Part of being an effective tank is target management, cooldown management, and making sure that you know your character and his/her limits. I’ve been on both ends as a Healer, with tanks who can’t handle what they’re pulling but do it anyways, or with tanks that I don’t even heal because they don’t pull enough to even scratch them...I’ve asked the tank to slow down a time or two, but never bothered asking them to speed up. Don’t let impatient players ruin things for ya!

[dragonseth07]

If you're gonna tank, tank correctly. Rotate cooldowns, pull big, use Sprint.

If you're gonna heal, heal correctly. Regen/shield, DPS, use Sprint.

If you're gonna DPS, DPS correctly. AoE, Goad the tank, use Sprint.

Everybody is new at some point. Helping new players through is something we all need to do. It's on us to allow new players time to learn. But, it's also on new players to use that time to learn, so they can stop being new.

[Alyanna_Elingval]

If the healer just started pulling on their own without saying anything they were definitely in the wrong. How hard is it to say if you want to do bigger pulls I think we're good. Giving/offering advice is fine, just people have absolutely no tact sometimes or just get pissy without even saying anything at all.

Taking an extra five minutes to do a dungeon because a tank doesn't feel comfortable doing large pulls is much preferable to being in a party with a player creating a toxic atmosphere

[shoobiedoobie]

This is what Shirk is for