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[SilverObi]

Mmm the slippery slopes are delicious today

[SenorPatty]

Mmm the slippery slopes are delicious today

I know right? Especially since we've begun our descent down those slopes sometime ago and now it's getting steeper by the year.


mmmmmhmm. mhm mhm mhm delicious!

[Marxam]

Mmm the slippery slopes are delicious today

Sometimes I swear between pagos, content stretching and heavy rng, this game has more slippery slopes and downhill curves than an Initial D Arcade game.

[Ryaz]

Mmm the slippery slopes are delicious today

Your argument that slopes are edible confuses and enrages me.

I don't think the app is pay to win. Motivated by greed? Yes. Pay to win, no.

[LineageRazor]

Your argument that slopes are edible confuses and enrages me.

I don't think the app is pay to win. Motivated by greed? Yes. Pay to win, no.

More, motivated by a desire to increase the company's profits by offering additional goods and services to consumers. As a company should. I'm not sure you can justify calling it "greed".

They offered a new paid service. Is the service worth the money that they're requesting for it? Debatable, and folks with a stake in it can cast their vote by opening or closing their wallets.

I go to work each day because I want to be paid. Am I greedy? I gotta pay for that delicious slice of fresh-baked slippery slope somehow!

[SenorPatty]

More, motivated by a desire to increase the company's profits by offering additional goods and services to consumers. As a company should. I'm not sure you can justify calling it "greed".

They offered a new paid service. Is the service worth the money that they're requesting for it? Debatable, and folks with a stake in it can cast their vote by opening or closing their wallets.

I go to work each day because I want to be paid. Am I greedy? I gotta pay for that delicious slice of fresh-baked slippery slope somehow!

If we are giving credit where its due, one can't help but be confused when double chocobo space and additional retainer is being offered for a price while they usually argue the reason they can't add more space for free due to reasons like server stress and limitations.

If it looks and smells like greed...

EDIT: You know what, come to think of it, it might not even be greed here. It's more like sloth at this point. The game still faces inventory bloat and disorganization issues but what does SE does? Slaps an extra retainer and more space for a fee cuz its easier to placate the playerbase that way

[Skivvy]

Since having access to retainers and inventory is assumed P2W I'm gonna say a skip potion is as much P2W. Both as ridiculous arguements.

When considering if something is pay 2 win, you have to view it within the context of the game. There is no single correct answer that will apply to all games. The broadest definition that generally fits is "pay for an advantage".

If you've been playing XIV for any decent amount of time, you'll soon find that this game doesn't really allow players to pull away from the group as far as progress goes. Because of this, most paid advantages will have rather minimal impact in-game, but it's still there.

I think for most people, endgame goals tend to revolve around any mix of world firsts, glamour, housing, farming mounts/minions, glamour amassing a huge fortune, etc.

So hopping over to the argument of whether or not extra retainers are p2w. Bottom line is that buying retainers gives you access to quicker gil via additional market slots and retainer expeditions. And if you're rocking the full 9 additional retainers, that's a pretty decent leg-up over the competition. The next argument is usually "but gil is worthless in this game!".

While gil is fairly useless, it does let you buy clears, buy gear drops, be able to take advantage of new glamour prices (as a crafter), buy those shiny minions/mounts that give you bragging rights, lets you buy into housing quicker (which in itself can be a huge profit booster), and I'm sure other things that I'm leaving out. Being ahead of the playerbase when new content/items drops can be very profitable for a player.


I'm a fan of a certain MMO that is extremely P2W. But when you boil things down, what are you getting when you go the P2W route in that game? You can buy your gear right away and work people in PvP, which in turn gives you more honor and gold. You can afford to buy the boats/cars right away, which in turn will bring in more gold for you. But all of this stuff can be obtained via good ol' fashioned grinding as well. At the end of the day, buying your way just speeds up the process (which is what it does in XIV as well).

So yeah, when comparing XIV and its retainers to games like that, it's almost laughable to try and claim that there is a P2W concern, but I'd argue it's still there. The effect of it is just far less extreme and obvious than in other games.

WITH ALL THAT SAID, I think my main issue with the paid retainers/app would be the following:

If we are giving credit where its due, one can't help but be confused when double chocobo space and additional retainer is being offered for a price while they usually argue the reason they can't add more space for free due to reasons like server stress and limitations.

If it looks and smells like greed...

[worldofneil]

If we are giving credit where its due, one can't help but be confused when double chocobo space and additional retainer is being offered for a price while they usually argue the reason they can't add more space for free due to reasons like server stress and limitations.

Similar to how the in-game minions/music that come with physical merchandise are now single character only (after years of being account wide). SE say it's hard for them to continue to do it account wide... but since that policy change they've bought out multiple mounts on the mogstation that are all account wide (and more expensive because they're account wide) and it feels very contradictory.

[DPZ2]

So, at least someone online here considers "extremely inconvenient storage in Chocobo Saddlebags" as pay-to-win?

hahahahahaha

That joke never gets old ...

[SilverObi]

I mean aside from the cascade of lackluster battle content I haven't seen much in the way of pay-to-win or a complete blowout in terms of the mog station. It's lazy that they put outfits and mounts and such in a shop when they could actually try and make them obtainable in-game through quests or more storylines. If a game is fully functional without micro transaction additions, then what is truly the problem? Pay for Convenience is rough (just look at SWToR) but ultimately not needed to play and progress and so isn't a true paywall. If SE were to hamstring progression and lock away necessary QoL through payments then yes we have hit the rock bottom. And I would imagine the quality of the game itself would drop enough by then to not warrant a second thought about leaving from most of the playerbase