Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

[HyoMinPark]

I'm going to guess that most of the people against it don't play on a controller, where of the 8 buttons you have immediate access to, 6 of them are dedicated to executing your combos. Which makes accessing any other buttons really clunky.

I play exclusively on a controller, and I’ve never had an issue with button bloat on any job I play (and I do play a pet class—SCH).

Each hotbar has 16 buttons by default. Using the extended cross (L2+R2 and R2+L2) gives you 16 more (this is not clunky to activate once you train your fingers to properly access it). Making using of the W-crossbar gives you 16 more (I don’t use this, but I’ve never heard complaints of clunkiness with regards to this either). That’s 48 buttons, not including that you can have up to 8 sets of regular crossbars if you want to have ones for “out of combat things” like mounts, minions, menu buttons, etc., and ones for “in-combat things” like skills (it is possible to customize these based on having weapons drawn or sheathed last I checked. Buttons are not an issue on controller anymore, and very few jobs use up all 48 of those available spots. The key is people need to use the resources available to them instead of just throwing their hands up and crying “button bloat”.

I asked about Monk because I don't play Monk, neither in PvE or PvP. I don't know what its combos look like in PvP.

I don’t play MNK, but I do play BRD, and I dislike their PvP setup.

The way BRD’s skills are set up currently, it only allows for 2 songs (Minuet and Army’s Paeon), Barrage cannot be used in Minuet (which is where you would use your damage buff Raging Strikes) but only in Army’s Paeon (your most lackluster song in terms of damage contribution). Bloodletter is only accessible in one of the songs, not readily accessible during all three songs (or two in PvP).

We don’t have a main combo, but our rotation is primarily DoT upkeep (via Iron Jaws) > Straight Shot buff upkeep > Heavy shot filler while we weave in oGCDs and wait for procs (Pitch Perfect in Minuet, and Bloodletter resets in Mage’s Ballad, and Refulgent Arrow). Currently, the PvP set up consolidates Straight Shot and Heavy Shot, alternating between the two as spam—this is not how these skills work individually. The only good aspect of it is that both of our DoTs are in a single button, but we have no Iron Jaws to refresh them with, so we have to constantly reapply them every 30 seconds, and we wait 2 GCDs doing so as opposed to just 1 with IJ.

And this isn’t including all the differences, just a few.

Significant changes would have to be made to the PvP layout for my job to even make it viable in PvE. This isn’t including anything they would change in 5.0 or 6.0 or 7.0, and skills they may add.

And no matter what it looks like, you have to consider that it could be added in optionally.

And that would probably be the day I either become a full-time crafter/gatherer, or just quit outright. I find the PvP consolidation mind-numbing and unengaging (as well as frustrating because I lost half of my toolkit), and I would hate to see it transition over into PvE. It’s doubtful the developers would make it “optional” either; a change like this would likely be forced on everyone.

[MomomiMomi]

I play exclusively on a controller, and I’ve never had an issue with button bloat on any job I play (and I do play a pet class—SCH).

Each hotbar has 16 buttons by default. Using the extended cross (L2+R2 and R2+L2) gives you 16 more (this is not clunky to activate once you train your fingers to properly access it). Making using of the W-crossbar gives you 16 more (I don’t use this, but I’ve never heard complaints of clunkiness with regards to this either). That’s 48 buttons, not including that you can have up to 8 sets of regular crossbars if you want to have ones for “out of combat things” like mounts, minions, menu buttons, etc., and ones for “in-combat things” like skills (it is possible to customize these based on having weapons drawn or sheathed last I checked. Buttons are not an issue on controller anymore, and very few jobs use up all 48 of those available spots. The key is people need to use the resources available to them instead of just throwing their hands up and crying “button bloat”.

I use those. They are clunky compared to accessing the default 16 buttons, where I would prefer to have my buttons that I'd like immediate access to. They're fine for less used abilities, but things like oGCD would be better accessed in the same 8 buttons where your combos are. But that's not possible.

[HyoMinPark]

I use those. They are clunky compared to accessing the default 16 buttons, where I would prefer to have my buttons that I'd like immediate access to. They're fine for less used abilities, but things like oGCD would be better accessed in the same 8 buttons where your combos are. But that's not possible.

The idea is that you put oGCDs and buffs on the less readily accessible bars. Not your main combo.

Also, I added to my post; not to address MNK specifically, but to outline for you the differences between the current PvP setup for my main (BRD) versus how the jobs function.

I can add one for MNK though (very rough; it is not my main, and my knowledge of any optimization is limited):

They aren't. Each finisher is its own combo. Branching combos are not a problem.

MNK does have different skills they switch up in their basic 1-2-3, though.

Here’s a very rough one:

Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Demolish
This would be the first combo, as it applies your damage buffs (Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes) and a DoT (Demolish).

Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch
This is your most potent combo. You want to execute it under your buffs.

Your third combo would look like this:
Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch
You need to refresh your damage buffs, as they’re about to run out, but you don’t need to refresh Demolish just yet; it still has enough ticks on it to last another combo.

Bootshine > True Strike > Demolish
Now you refresh Demolish, as it will expire soon.

Consolidating combos could be problematic for MNK because their combos are not always the same 1-2-3.

[MomomiMomi]

The idea is that you put oGCDs and buffs on the less readily accessible bars. Not your main combo.

Buffs, sure. But oGCDs that you have to constantly wave in to your attacks? Why wouldn't you want them more readily available?

[HyoMinPark]

Buffs, sure. But oGCDs that you have to constantly wave in to your attacks? Why wouldn't you want them more readily available?

I play BRD, a job built off of oGCDs (sadly, SB removed a lot of ours). I don’t have any issues.

My extended cross consists of two of my songs (Mage’s and Army’s)—I rotate these on an 80 second rotation, because they have 80 second cooldowns—Raging Strikes (also 80 seconds), Battle Voice (180s), Refresh (180s), Troubadour (180s), Second Wind (120s) and other various things like Invigorate and Tactician that I do not need to access often (or things that aren’t used often (Warden’s Paeon, Head Graze). My other oGCDs (Pitch Perfect, Bloodletter, Rain of Death, and Sidewinder) along with Minuet are on my main hotbar. This should be the case for any job. The only ones that I see having issues would be pet-based jobs. I don’t play SMN, but I do play SCH, and I still don’t struggle.

My songs Mage’s and Army’s are on my extended cross from HW days, where they weren’t used often. Muscle memory worked against me moving them around, so I left them there. If you build up the muscle memory, there isn’t an issue toggling between regular cross and extended.

[MomomiMomi]

\MNK does have different skills they switch up in their basic 1-2-3, though.

Here’s a very rough one:

Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Demolish
This would be the first combo, as it applies your damage buffs (Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes) and a DoT (Demolish).

Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch
This is your most potent combo. You want to execute it under your buffs.

Your third combo would look like this:
Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch
You need to refresh your damage buffs, as they’re about to run out, but you don’t need to refresh Demolish just yet; it still has enough ticks on it to last another combo.

Bootshine > True Strike > Demolish
Now you refresh Demolish, as it will expire soon.

Consolidating combos could be problematic for MNK because their combos are not always the same 1-2-3.

If Opo-Opo:

Bootshine, Dragon Kick, Arm of the Destroyer.

If Raptor:

True Trike, Twin Snakes, One Ilm Punch.

If Coeurl:

Demolish, Snap Punch, Rock Breaker.

Done. 3 buttons. Press the one you want.

[HyoMinPark]

If Opo-Opo:

Bootshine, Dragon Kick, Arm of the Destroyer.

If Raptor:

True Trike, Twin Snakes, One Ilm Punch.

If Coeurl:

Demolish, Snap Punch, Rock Breaker.

Done. 3 buttons. Press the one you want.

Okay, and your solution to SAM with regards to Meikyo Shisui? How do you propose that working under the influence of a buff that gets rid of combos to allow you to apply buffs earlier or to get Sens earlier outside of full combos?

I never argued that it works in pvp therefore it works in pve. I said that the pve game works like this already. The rotations do not change.

They can depending on the scenario for some jobs—BRDs have a strict song rotation, but there are incidents where you would want to change them up:
—Single-target is Minuet > Mage’s > Army’s
—AOE rotation is Mage’s > Army’s > Minuet

Optimal rotations in UwU are to do Minuet > Army’s > Mage’s during Titan because there’s a chance you will be gaoled and waste Mage’s Ballad, a song more potent than Army’s. Transition into Ultima through Predation calls for you to do Minuet > Army’s (during Predation and for ~10 seconds when he returns) > Mage’s (clip at 10 seconds) > Minuet so that you can activate Troubadour for raid damage mitigation.

They’re niche, but the situations exist where you do change them up a bit.

You can’t do that if you shove them all into 1 button.

[MomomiMomi]

Okay, and your solution to SAM with regards to Meikyo Shisui? How do you propose that working under the influence of a buff that gets rid of combos to allow you to apply buffs earlier or to get Sens earlier outside of full combos?

Place the mid-combo button where you would normally place your buffs. You'd still have access to it, but don't need it in your easy to access buttons.

[HyoMinPark]

Place the mid-combo button where you would normally place your buffs. You'd still have access to it, but don't need it in your easy to access buttons.

But the skill consolidation would literally turn the 1-2-3 4-5-6 7-8 combo that SAM has into 1-1-1 2-2-2 3-3, because that’s what PvP does: base combos are reduced into single-button spam as opposed to 3 buttons.

It wouldn’t allow for something like the 3-Sen opener, in which you hit Meikyo Shisui > Yukikaze (“8”) > Hagakure (oGCD) > Guren (oGCD) > Gekko (“6”) > Kaiten > Higanbana > Gekko (“6”). You can’t do that if the combos are all consolidated into 1-1-1 or 2-2-2 and require you to cycle through them beforehand to reach the skill you need. Yukikaze and Gekko are combo finishers, but the logic would still apply if one wanted to use it for Shifu (“2”) or Jinpu (“5”): they aren’t readily accessible without first cycling through to get to them.

[Sigma-Astra]

If Opo-Opo:

Bootshine, Dragon Kick, Arm of the Destroyer.

If Raptor:

True Trike, Twin Snakes, One Ilm Punch.

If Coeurl:

Demolish, Snap Punch, Rock Breaker.

Done. 3 buttons. Press the one you want.

No one uses One Ilm Punch in their right mind. No respectable monk would use it. Ever.