Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

[Jonnycbad]

To people who think the game is too slow: do you want FFXIV to be an RPG or an action game? Running around and hitting things in real time is more like an Elder Scrolls/Dragon's Dogma/Monster Hunter type experience. FFXIV is meant to be the pace its at so you can think about your rotation and avoid mechanics instead of mashing attacks out every half second. Plus, they already stated that the faster they made GCD the more they'd need to curtail the beautiful animations of the spells and effects. WoW's animations are crap because they need to dissipate before the next GCD. FFXIV prides itself on being a visually stunning experience. But yeah, mashing out hotkeys while dodging attacks would make FFXIV almost feel like a fighting game or an action game than an RPG.

[Aerlana]

*snip*

So, aesthetic > gameplay
...
to be honest, aesthetic questions are always the last thing i am asking myself to consider a game... Far after things like gameplay or leveldesign

[Yzuna]

So, aesthetic > gameplay
...
to be honest, aesthetic questions are always the last thing i am asking myself to consider a game... Far after things like gameplay or leveldesign

Well, same for me. But feel that your skill have impact is part of the gameplay for me.
Skills/spells with longer Cd and/or build-up but with more impact on the fight could actually be interesting. More so if you had to time those skills right (waiting for significant buffs, synergy with other PT member, timing for boss weakness etc.
Right now, you are using almost everything on CD, without really thinking about it.
They tried this, like with Ninja weakeness debuff, but all in all, it doesn't really change much, and you almost never should delay a skills to wait for debuff/buff.

[Aerlana]

*snip*

It stay a gameplay question and not aesthetic.

I dont give my opinion about the boringness of the gameplay. Because yes i feel it. I dont want to be the number 23723 to say "boriiiing" but i also dont want the easy way "look at wow with 1 second less on GCD, and the hast (spell/skillspeed) growing faster (so even more GCD reduction). Mainly because i dont thing it is the only way to solve this "boring" matter.

I love wow, as i love BDO, as i love BNS gameplay also. I am globally an easy customer not hard to make me happy in fact. (and FFXIV, a game i have so much hope in fail to it ^^" ) I want FFXIV to define his own way to be a MMORPG with tab targetting system.

A way (close to what you say) would be to insist more to an important "decision making" : choosing the right skill at the good time. Where BNS/BDO are action RPG, and wow get a faster gameplay (with priority system) we could have FFXIV getting a slower gameplay (without going a turn system like dofus) where the matter is clearly "not mistaking the skill you choose".

It is a way, there are probably man others. I prefer for this Say "hey dev team, there is a problem here" and let the professionnal they are find the solution they prefer work on. they are a really heavy team to do brainstorming... Ideas are not the matter i think.

[KaldeaSahaline]

I'd just like to ask people who play other MMOs how "build-based" systems are better than this. Because, from what I've heard of these "build-based" MMOs like WoW (which you get one class per character and from what I've heard you have to uproot everything to re-build), if you are not the optimal build people refuse to play with you essentially.

Build based systems are superior (IMO) if they're well designed/thought out, but if they aren't there are issues that muddy the waters.

Your WoW example is nothing more than a hyperbole though. I pick whatever talents I want and I do some of the hardest content in the game, successfully. No one kicks me, I get invited to pugs no problem, and do organized events with no one telling me how to play.

WoW does have less freedom to switch around roles/class than FF14 does, and that is a strength in FF14s column for sure, but it's not completely uproot. A lot of content is account bound in that if you unlock XYZ on your main, it's automatically unlocked for any and all alts and each class has multiple specs you can switch between on a single character. Again, still more restricting than FF14, but not some crime people make it out to be.

FFXIV is meant to be the pace its at so you can think about your rotation and avoid mechanics instead of mashing attacks out every half second. Plus, they already stated that the faster they made GCD the more they'd need to curtail the beautiful animations of the spells and effects. WoW's animations are crap because they need to dissipate before the next GCD. FFXIV prides itself on being a visually stunning experience. But yeah, mashing out hotkeys while dodging attacks would make FFXIV almost feel like a fighting game or an action game than an RPG.

Think about your rotation? I don't understand why people always cite this as a reason for the 2.5s GCD. If you're "thinking" about your rotation you're already playing sub-optimally. It should be muscle memory ESPECIALLY with how binary 99% of the rotations are.

While FF14 has absolutely beautiful animations, better than WoWs for sure (which are not nearly as awful as the game has gotten older), I'm not sure it has to do with the GCD TBH.

Quicken the GCD and it makes each individual GCD feel less impactful. When you're casting Flare/Deathflare or whatever [insert huge damge GCD] much faster than you are currently, they feel less important than "ive been building up to this huge attack for 30 seconds, time to unleash it!" vs "i can do this move every 10 seconds, no biggie".

So by this statement if you were to increase GCD to 5s would it make them MORE impactful?

That's absolute hogwash. None of these GCDs feel impactful in this game because they're binary. They don't do anything fancy, they just do damage. They don't have much if any synergy. They're simply mash on CD with next to no decision process elements.

I'm talking about PING, not a specific persons point of view.

And I'm sorry. You are objectively, factually incorrect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwaz_aAih-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meDtc3QqQeI

Say that when you start playing on the high-ping side (like, 300-400 PING). You most likely never tried that. Go ahead and try playing the likes of Titan (it's Weight of the Land is particularly nasty) on a Japanese or European server. Can you do it?! Yes, absolutely. But you'll see how much worse you will do simply because of PING difference. In a game that is made to minimize that.

And don't tell me that I could just play on European servers. I could, but if I would, I'd never even start playing. I came here upon a friends invite and that friend was playing on NA servers...starting early on in 2.0 I believe. It's simply not a choice.

It is a choice. You made the decision to sacrifice significant performance to play with friends (and I get and respect that). I'm going to say something that might ruffle some feathers, but with all due respect, you shouldn't be catered too. I don't think anyone should be designing systems with the idea of having people from the other side of the planet into account until infrastructure is there to support it. It's a stupid limitation to put on yourself. It's why every major game puts servers in major areas to mitigate this. If you have 300ms to an NA server you don't belong there. Simply put.

Your BNS examples are hardly what I consider egregious btw (20% slower speed fro 8ms to 160ms). Again, if you had 300-400MS on BNS NA you don't belong on that server. Simple as that. Find one closer.

[Aerlana]

Think about your rotation? I don't understand why people always cite this as a reason for the 2.5s GCD. If you're "thinking" about your rotation you're already playing sub-optimally. It should be muscle memory ESPECIALLY with how binary 99% of the rotations are.

Missed this non-sense when i did answer... ty ^^'
Also, we could have a gameplay where we really have to think about the next skill. But yes you are right, the rotations on FFXIV are so simple and obvious (reading clearly each skill and you already understand the rotation without any guide...)

While FF14 has absolutely beautiful animations, better than WoWs for sure (which are not nearly as awful as the game has gotten older), I'm not sure it has to do with the GCD TBH.

WoW melee animation are mainly basic hit. not long work. For cast animation, on the last years they did work on all classes, and i really like most of new work (mainly the healing spell of the priests <3)
And casting animation are more worked than the melee (instant) mainly because large part are really limited by 1,5 sec or more (depending of cast time)

if you shorten the GCD of FF from 2.5 to 1.5, you have to do animation staying in those 1,5 seconds... It is a real reason, but... When you fill the game is boring, it can be as beautiful as the most beautiful thing in the world... it stays boring (at least... we have time to see those animation :-° )
Prefer "crap" animation and not sleeping while pushing buttons personnaly (and... FF as nice animation, with some of them making really strange moves to character... so not so wonderfull...)

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Missed this non-sense when i did answer... ty ^^'
Also, we could have a gameplay where we really have to think about the next skill. But yes you are right, the rotations on FFXIV are so simple and obvious (reading clearly each skill and you already understand the rotation without any guide...)

I'm sorry, but I disagree with this completely. If rotations were so simple and obvious, you wouldn't have so many people failing to do the most simple of DPS checks.

It's easy to say the game is easy and the rotations are simple when you don't do anything more than dungeon content.

[Aylis]

To people who think the game is too slow: do you want FFXIV to be an RPG or an action game?

Who says it can't be both? RPG just means Role Playing Game. Basically a persona living in an imaginary world starting out as whatever, and facing all sorts of trials and tribulations. Peaks of high moments, peaks of low moments. Friends and enemies you make along your way. All leading up to an end goal in the games world. There's no written rule that says RPG must mean poking bad things with a stick once every couple minutes and going to make a snack while waiting for your next stick poking turn is the right way to RPG vs a world where that same character can move as greased lightning. The world, the setup, the story, the situations are what make an RPG an RPG, not the combat. Hence the genre "Action RPG" was born.

[Kirsten_Rev]

Who says it can't be both? RPG just means Role Playing Game. Basically a persona living in an imaginary world starting out as whatever, and facing all sorts of trials and tribulations. Peaks of high moments, peaks of low moments. Friends and enemies you make along your way. All leading up to an end goal in the games world. There's no written rule that says RPG must mean poking bad things with a stick once every couple minutes and going to make a snack while waiting for your next stick poking turn is the right way to RPG vs a world where that same character can move as greased lightning. The world, the setup, the story, the situations are what make an RPG an RPG, not the combat. Hence the genre "Action RPG" was born.

Just to play devil's advocate though, I'd also point out that FFXIV can barely be called an RPG (most FF games are what I'd term 'adventure games' rather than 'role-playing games'). There's no meaningful dialogue options; no meaningful character growth choice; no skill trees or specialties.

That's not to say that the games aren't fun - they are - but it's a far cry from the role-playing options available in true RPGs like Divinity, Deus Ex, or going back further, titles like Baldur's Gate.

[Aylis]

Just to play devil's advocate though, I'd also point out that FFXIV can barely be called an RPG (most FF games are what I'd term 'adventure games' rather than 'role-playing games'). There's no meaningful dialogue options; no meaningful character growth choice; no skill trees or specialties.

That's not to say that the games aren't fun - they are - but it's a far cry from the role-playing options available in true RPGs like Divinity, Deus Ex, or going back further, titles like Baldur's Gate.

I deffo get that completely and to be honest yes I do kinda put adventure games and RPG games for the most part in the same boat and the line between the two gets further blurred each new generation of games. A lot of it I think since you brought up Baldur's Gate has a lot to do with just how drastic the difference between consoles and PC's were at the time. Due to that difference in hardware and tech PC's often wre the source of what I would consider an RPG in terms of character growth, dialogue options and everything in between. The most important part being the ability to make your own story as you saw fit. Granted yes the games had their own story going on, but the freedom on how you tackled it was what made them shine. Want to play nice with the people at an inn? Okay. Want to rob them blind? Okay. Want to get drunk and decide to set off a fireball on the inn keep? Okay, and so on. I do consider games like Baulder's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale and more modern games like The Elder Scrolls series to be where RPG's are at. I could even say Grand Theft Auto is RPG like, just because the freedom of choice on how you take on situations is there. In MMO terms I'd say the closest ones to an RPG that I've played would be SWTOR and GW2 since there was a degree of choices in story situations.

Enter consoles which I feel created a not necessarily right or wrong view of RPG's, just a different one. Since most (at least of those I knew) had a console over a PC just because they were cheaper, more easily available and easy to maintain and quite fun. However due to hardware limitations no way they could cram a world full of infinite choices a player could come up with on a single 8 bit or 16 bit cartridge. They had to make drastic changes to get an RPG game to fit. This is where I agree that most RPG's are adventure games, or more or less the Adventure RPG genre. Games that do have an RPG element in terms of leveling up, getting new abilities and new equipment, interaction with NPC's, and some hidden paths to find. However they're very linear and most of the time spent is just going from point A to point B with no real way to break free and have the story change based on things you do and your choices on interacting with people.

Granted some modern games have gotten better with this and allowing more choices in customizing a games story, but well past experiences and thoughts are hard to change as people get older and are set in their ways.